I was just curious how often you guys use collar chokes?
I have been doing Judo and BJJ for a number of years. A little over 2 years ago I started training at a BJJ only school. For most of the first year I just worked on positions and escapes and used whatever submission that was avaiable. After awhile I started to realize that 90% of my submissions were by collar choke. From all positions including the clock choke and alligator choke.
So I was curious if my preference that year was due to my Judo background? Do you "BJJ only" guys use collar chokes allot?
I have been focusing now on improving my armlocks and Triangles so now I only collar choke about 50% of the time.
I always go for collar chokes, but mostly from the mount position. I'm a little on the heavy side and I find it to my advantage to use all my weight and gravity to make the collar chokes more effective. And I find it alot easier to transition to other subs from the collar chokes if the person is defending w/ his arms i.e. armbars, kimuras.
Interesting. Mount is actually one area I don't usually try to collar choke mainly because I usually get rolled. In fact I prefer Side Mount over Mount especially on bigger guys.
But that is a good strategy, I should try to do what you mention by attaking the collar in Mount to setup other submissions. I kinda do that but never really threaten the choke to get a reaction.
Thanks ricenlechon, I can't wait to try that in class.
One question. When you go for the straight armbar after they block the choke, do you slide your knee under their arm first or hook the arm with your arm?
TBoy2- You know what, I'm glad that you brought up that question about the knee sliding under their arm. For me, I prefer to slide up a knee under the opponent's arm that is blocking the choke. Reason being is because when you raise up the oppent's back off the ground and keep it there w/ your knee, it will make the armbar that tighter if you do attempt to go for it, and it will make it more difficult for your opponent to escape. Also, since I'm on the heavier side, I can't execute those lightning-quick spinning armbars that alot of the more experienced advanced guys and lighter guys can execute from the mount. Sliding that knee under the opponent's arm/back is like that extra step for me that brings me a little closer to executing the armbar from the mount. It also depends on different factors i.e. personal preference or what the opponent gives you and how they react. Let me put it this way, when I'm in the mount position, I like to keep my knees as close and straddled to the opponent's torso whether he/she is completely flat on their back or on their side w/ their back off the ground. So whether they're protecting/blocking a choke or not, as soon as a part of their upper torso is off the ground, I'll slide up a knee under it right away and try my best not to give them openings for them to capitalize. While of course trying to maintain my base at the same time. =) Sorry for the long explanation. And thanks for asking me this question and actually making me think about the more important details that I tend to forget every now and then. Hope that gives you more options or gave you something to consider next time.
I try to never do them. I try to keep my game as close to a no gi attacking game as possible. I use the gi to keep myself technical so others can use it against me but I try not to grab the gi as much as possible. I like the idea of having less to work with making the tap that more satisfactory.
I never use them either, and I do very well with other submissions. On the rare occasion I am having trouble opening someone up, I will use one to create an opporunity for other submissions.
The Mat Pimp why did you just get all pissy about what sayonaisse said? Who cares how he trains?
Who's pissy? Can't a ninja point out an inconsistent idea? I'm sure he's mature enough not to crumble to pieces when I question his methodology...are you?
ricenlechon - Thanks for the explanation. I am 39 now so I am not as quick as I used to be, plus I try to conserve more enegry and try to be more technical. The info you gave me is very helpful and gives me something to think about.
A second question on the armbar. How do you hook the arm after you get your knee under? This is more of a question when your opponent has his arm tight to his body like the more experience guys do.
This info is all helpful to me. I have problems with the regular mount on good guys so I usually go to S Mount, but if I can finish from Mount that would give me more options.
It's not that it will hurt my no gi game, I don't even roll no gi that much. It's just a restriction I put on myself to force myself to find other ways around problems. If it wasn't for leaving collar chokes then I doubt I would get as many taps as I do from the back using other techniques I have worked on and have refined. It' like Royler said he hurt his right leg so he was forced to play his weaker side more dominate and it made his game that much better. That's all I've done, I've restricted my game, and I think I'm much better off for doing so.
Mat Pimp, you know that in real fights it's not a guarantee that your opponent would have a nice open collar or jacket on with which to choke him. But he'll always have arms and a neck. I practice them, but I certainly focus more on arm locks and chokes that don't involve the collar. That being said, the clock choke against the turtle is the sickness...
sayonaisse, sounds good...I would still suggest that there's no real evidence that training with a gi and learning to use it to your advantage is detrimental to your nogi game. Marcelo Garcia trains 5 out of six days with the gi and it hasn't really killed his game.
Sha, I live in Hawaii and I've been in at least one scrap at the beach where the guy wasn't even wearing a shirt, so yes I am aware of that. Doesn't mean anything to me, I will still try to be the best at chokes I can be. To me, jiujitsu is about accepting things as they are and learning to take advantage of it.
Again, let me say the gi is where I started and the gi is where I'll leave the mat in. I hardly roll no gi. So in no part am I restricting my game for my no gi game. I do it to open up my gi game to other possiblities and other outlets of attack. From the back it is too easy to pass the gi over and start attacking the neck. Plus it doens't even matter not to have a gi, you can do almost all the chokes with a gi without the gi. Yes, ezekial, cross choke, a loop choke is like doing a brabo from guard, a collar choke is sort of like doing the old judo RNC from the back. So now when I have to fight someone on a beach whether they are wearing a winter jacket or in shorts I can handle them, and my game is more open whether I use the gi or not. Now who's training has opened them up to more possiblities, you or me?