Care to share your thoughts on anything just shoot down other people?
I’m not saying that they are the same. I’m saying it’s ridiculously overvalued in MMA.
Yeah it’s structured differently. You won’t have any 235lb boxers cutting down to fight for 185lb titles.
Manny Pacquiao going from Flyweight to WW for titles is far more impressive than a guy that cuts huge huge weight to get the lower titles.
Are you Chael’s friend or something?
I will leave this now, I’ve said my thoughts. If you can’t share yours then have fun being the negative Nancy telling people they’re wrong while not saying anything yourself.
So winning 5 in a row then knocking out the top available contender is clearly undeserving. Who would you have preferred to have Izzy rematch and what contender should Alex have KOd in the mean time to make him deserving? Bo Nickal is as decorated in collegiate wrestling as he was in kickboxing, would you have preferred he went that route and kept fighting hand-picked scrubs?
And I brought up Aspinall because it was implied he’d be cutting the line at heavyweight too. What line? You want Gane to get a third shot already? Gatekeeper Blaydes? Stipe who hasn’t won a fight in 4 years, only fought guys who aren’t in the UFC anymore for the last 7 years?
You respond with emptiness like some contrarian that has nothing to offer but to tell people why they’re wrong without sharing their own thoughts.
If you have nothing to add then maybe just say nothing? Easy to shoot everyone done without putting your own ideas into the world for similar criticism. It’s a pretty easy way of going through life as an ass.
Good for you being a know it all in life that has nothing to say.
For my criteria GOAT = Longevity at the Top of THIS Sport
Alex like Henry Cejudo is incredibly credentialed and he has done it in such spectacular and quick fashion but they are multi sport athletes and not necessarily the GOATs in MMA specifically.
For example in their Divisions, Alex has nowhere near the Longevity at the Top (at this point in time 1 Defense and is 10-2 overall) as Jon Jones or Henry Cejudo had nothing like the Title Defenses and Reign of Mighty Mouse so by my criteria Jon and Mighty Mouse are held in higher regard.
I really appreciate though as a fan how Alex requested to step up to HW on 3 weeks notice as opposed to Jon Jones needing 3 years for such a weak era of the Division no less.
Another example is Werdum, I think he has arguably the greatest wins at HW or possibly this sport in general BUT… When he did get to the Top he lost immediately. Not even 1 defense. So by my criteria he didn’t make it. Where as Fedor got to the Top in 2003 and didn’t lose until 2010 despite how bad he declined and may have hurt his legacy after.
Another example is Weidman, he had a great run and beat Anderson Silva but his Reign pales in comparison to Anderson who got to the Top in 2007 and didn’t lose his spot until he lost it in 2013 so Weidman aint the GOAT at MW like Anderson showed he was despite as well how much he lost after and hurt his legacy.
It is WAY HARDER to get to the Top of the Mountain and STAY at the Top then it is to get to the Top and then fall all the way down immediately after or quit.
I rate divisional dominance higher than walking into title shots at different weights. There are very few champs with 5+ defenses in MMA history. There’s been several double champs just since 2015 or so.
Plus, even though it’s not his own fault, the modern 185 and 205 divisions have been perfect for Pereira stylistically in addition to him being fast tracked through them.
Yeah Jon is way past his prime and would still run over Alex today. If he weren’t lazy he would cut the weight and go beat Alex right now since he has all the heat. It would look a lot like the Gane fight.
Exactly, what Pereira has done has been amazing and though he would be the underdog I’d love to see him attempt to become the first 3 weight UFC champ by beating Jones or Aspinall.
With that being said, the divisions have been perfect for him stylistically.
It is not like he ran through Jones, DC, Rumble, Gus and Nemkov to get the LHW belt or defend it.
Winning belts is impressive but it does not tell the whole story.
To me, right now, Pereira is not yet one of the top 20 GOATS in MMA history. He might end up there but he has not yet beat enough fighters.
Not that emotional, frustrating at times. I tried to discuss with good intentions only to get constantly shot down on other things with no opposing input. That’s not a discussion (and not all you).
You have a much clearer response below outlining your thoughts which honestly aren’t that different from the heart of my own opinions.
When I say beating a long line of contenders is what makes a belt valuable and meaningful, I guess the spirit is the same as your thoughts. If you win a belt in your first ever fight and go on to have a good lengthy run as the top guy it’s the same difference.
Bottom line being you have to have a run, before or after a title doesn’t matter. The title in and of itself is not a legend maker.
That’s all.
I agree with you more than you think, you just don’t like my way of saying it maybe.
When you are name calling and saying derogatory things about multiple posters in a thread; you come off as emotional.
I agree with you on the sentiment that AP has a long ways to even get INTO the GOAT conversations. I don’t agree with denigrating his achievements because multiple weight champs in boxing are far more common. There are 42% more weight division titles available to win in boxing. If AP won the HW title, in boxing he would be spanning 20 lbs. Depending on the weight classes in boxing that could span 7 weight divisions. Most likely it spans 4-5 weight classes so his achievement (in MMA) would be akin to Leonard or Duran’s achievements.
On that note; no one will ever even come close to duplicating (since Boxing is being discussed) what Henry Armstrong did. He held and defended the Feather, Light and Welter titles and DREW for the Middle. That is five titles held simultaneously in today’s 4, 5, 6 and 7lb division differences.
I want to be clear that I am not at all ever taking anything away from Alex and have had zero intention of doing so here.
Winning at WW/LHW/HW is an incredible and awesome achievement.
My original point was that by itself, that doesn’t make him a GOAT. Other things are needed in that equation as you laid out.
In saying how much it’s happened in boxing, I don’t mean it’s worthless. There are examples in boxing where that’s 100% deservedly respected. But not always. MMA is young and tends to elevate to the extreme regardless of context. Not the end of the world.
As for name calling, I have a dude (not you) trying to argue with me about things I never even said or thought or agree with, which is wild lol. That’s what I get for jumping in here in the middle of a fun stress-filled workday.
This would appear to be taking credibility away from his achievements. Maybe it is just me…and I’m not exactly wondrously powerful at understanding “tone”.
I apologize for coming off the way I did. I thought you were picking at AP’s achievements. I got that part wrong.
Any time fighters come in and do some amazing things people tend to get hyperbolic about their achievements because of this incessant need to have somebody or somebody be “the greatest ____ of ______”.
Alex is clearly not your average fighter. Two division champion in the world’s premier kickboxing organization, comes to MMA, becomes a two division champion there. Incredibly skilled striker, very special athlete, completely unique. Shows up to fight every time and looking to decapitate his opponent. Still developing his other skills. Super exciting to watch, has the perfect combination of confidence and humility for a fighter.
As mentioned, he was fast tracked, because of his wins over Izzy in kickboxing. He can’t be considered one of the GOATs because he lacks divisional dominance, but as McTowelie said, he will be (and already is in a way) in his own category of greatness.
The question I have is, why isn’t that good enough? I don’t understand why a guy has to be “the greatest” of anything to be recognized for his own achievements. Alex doesn’t have enough time to knock off five contenders at 205 before he gets too old to fight. People just need to accept that athletes can have incredible accomplishments that stand on their own, without lumping them in with others into predetermined categories.
. Your post was negative. I was responding to that with a factual statement.
. Werdum has imo the greatest resume of wins at HW. He had no run as the best HW. Never cleaned out the division.