Because the one who can better control the chaos usually wins...
There are so many variables in MMA so the one who can better limit, dictate and control it wins.
it's not ultimate fighting... it's control fighting. You need the ability to control, be it with your wrestling, your footwork or your clinch work... and you need the ability to defend against this.
Sad thing is when this thread was created it was true about condit. 
Shogun, to me, is the epitome of what every fighter should be. Extremely technical and yet always looking to finish. Also humble and professional outside of the cage.
It's hard to fully blame Zuffa for me.
When you think about it, Zuffa's #1 goal was to promote and grow the UFC. Mission accomplished(and continuing).
I think it's understandable that fans, as well as promoters/owners couldn't see that as the sport and UFC both grew, so did the importance level of keeping your job to stay with a company. The fact that UFC is the biggest mma promotion only enhances the opportunities for fighters to value their position with the current biggest promotion.
It's not like Zuffa or how mma has become more mainstream's purpose(to create such high value for being with a promotion that fighters are afraid to lose and get cut), it's just a side effect of the sport growing.
Now, let's think of ways to fix it :)
D241 - It's hard to fully blame Zuffa for me.When a promoter increases the paydays, gives title shots and does huge PR pushes for fighters who eek out a win via LnP or WnS or running away from their opponents and threatens everyone who takes a close loss or loses an exciting fight with being cut then you are going to dull the desire of exciting fighters to be exciting (Condit is the perfect example). Zuffa has done this and caused this problem. How to fix? Simple:
When you think about it, Zuffa's #1 goal was to promote and grow the UFC. Mission accomplished(and continuing).
I think it's understandable that fans, as well as promoters/owners couldn't see that as the sport and UFC both grew, so did the importance level of keeping your job to stay with a company. The fact that UFC is the biggest mma promotion only enhances the opportunities for fighters to value their position with the current biggest promotion.
It's not like Zuffa or how mma has become more mainstream's purpose(to create such high value for being with a promotion that fighters are afraid to lose and get cut), it's just a side effect of the sport growing.
Now, let's think of ways to fix it :)
- Zuffa makes public statements after shitty "wins" by a fighter like Rashad or Condit that they will NEVER get a title shot and could get cut fighting like that. We wouldn't even need better judges or refs or better rules. This one change in philosophy would turn everything around OVERNIGHT...
And, please, no one bring up Fitch. The only reason they punished Fitch is because he caused that hub-bub about not signing away his likeness rights years ago.
No one gives a shit
Haulport -Condit's win was great.D241 - It's hard to fully blame Zuffa for me.When a promoter increases the paydays, gives title shots and does huge PR pushes for fighters who eek out a win via LnP or WnS or running away from their opponents and threatens everyone who takes a close loss or loses an exciting fight with being cut then you are going to dull the desire of exciting fighters to be exciting (Condit is the perfect example). Zuffa has done this and caused this problem. How to fix? Simple:
When you think about it, Zuffa's #1 goal was to promote and grow the UFC. Mission accomplished(and continuing).
I think it's understandable that fans, as well as promoters/owners couldn't see that as the sport and UFC both grew, so did the importance level of keeping your job to stay with a company. The fact that UFC is the biggest mma promotion only enhances the opportunities for fighters to value their position with the current biggest promotion.
It's not like Zuffa or how mma has become more mainstream's purpose(to create such high value for being with a promotion that fighters are afraid to lose and get cut), it's just a side effect of the sport growing.
Now, let's think of ways to fix it :)
- Zuffa makes public statements after shitty "wins" by a fighter like Rashad or Condit that they will NEVER get a title shot and could get cut fighting like that. We wouldn't even need better judges or refs or better rules. This one change in philosophy would turn everything around OVERNIGHT...
And, please, no one bring up Fitch. The only reason they punished Fitch is because he caused that hub-bub about not signing away his likeness rights years ago.
Will you people shut the fuck up about that fight already.
Haulport -D241 - It's hard to fully blame Zuffa for me.When a promoter increases the paydays, gives title shots and does huge PR pushes for fighters who eek out a win via LnP or WnS or running away from their opponents and threatens everyone who takes a close loss or loses an exciting fight with being cut then you are going to dull the desire of exciting fighters to be exciting (Condit is the perfect example). Zuffa has done this and caused this problem.
When you think about it, Zuffa's #1 goal was to promote and grow the UFC. Mission accomplished(and continuing).
I think it's understandable that fans, as well as promoters/owners couldn't see that as the sport and UFC both grew, so did the importance level of keeping your job to stay with a company. The fact that UFC is the biggest mma promotion only enhances the opportunities for fighters to value their position with the current biggest promotion.
It's not like Zuffa or how mma has become more mainstream's purpose(to create such high value for being with a promotion that fighters are afraid to lose and get cut), it's just a side effect of the sport growing.
Now, let's think of ways to fix it :)
I'm saying Zuffa isn't the ONLY ones to do this. Of course Zuffa will do huge PR pushes for fighters who were promised a title shot.
Maybe that's one of the problems is that they announce "winner of this fight gets title shot" and perhaps that increases the chances of point fighting or playing it safe/fighting not to lose.
Perhaps if UFC would up TWO possible contender matches, with a stipulation that "whoever looks the best in their victory tonight, gets the next shot" might help?
Not only did ZUFFA create it but people have gone from going out of peak around 32 to people still being world champs at 40. It's just a good thing people like Fedor had tournaments where they got to fight a tonne of times in one night so they had as many fights as someone with a full length career.
But ZUFFA probably had no intention of creating point fighters when they cut people for going on losing streaks they just wanted to gain more prestige for their show... which has actually worked as well.
Herring In A Fur Coat -RJJH -
ZUFFA is 100% behind it by threatening to cut people who lose.
I do not buy the "someones got to get cut" mentality.
How do you maintain a manageable sized roster if no one ever gets cut (while new fighters are brought in all the time?)
Obviously by cutting the boring winners and giving title shots to crowd-pleasing losers.
rockwell -orcus - fought like:Preserved in case of edit.....-- guys who go all out from the opening bell with no goal in mind but to finish their opponents by sub or KO, and who don't demonstrate that by flailing like Toughman contestants but by combining their high level of skill with non-stop pressure.
- Diego Sanchez
- Jose Aldo
- Fedor Emelianenko
- Urijah Faber
- Hideo Tokoro
- Joachim Hansen
- Eddie Alvarez
- Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
- etc
Think of how incredible it would be if everyone fought like that rather than clinching against the fence or lying on each other on the ground or circling and throwing jabs from 10 feet away or brawling like grade schoolers.
What on earth would I edit?
Ah yes, didn't pay attention to the statement you responded to. I don't see how anyone can argue that no one has to be cut, or how anyone but Haulport can argue that winners rather than losers should be cut.
We need rules to press the action.
Forget point fighters, they will kill the sport.
We want a fight, 100% action, not stalling and point taking.
orcus -Did RJJH really suggest that losers of exciting fights should get title shots?Herring In A Fur Coat -RJJH -
ZUFFA is 100% behind it by threatening to cut people who lose.
I do not buy the "someones got to get cut" mentality.
How do you maintain a manageable sized roster if no one ever gets cut (while new fighters are brought in all the time?)
Obviously by cutting the boring winners and giving title shots to crowd-pleasing losers.
I was under the assumption that the stance was to not reward winners of boring fights.
" Did RJJH really suggest that losers of exciting fights should get title shots?"
No, RJJH suggested there is no need to cut guys, while Haulport ridiculed the notion of guys who merely win every fight getting title shots.
Remember how that one team/athlete that kept winning didn't get to the World Series/NCAA Finals/Wimbledon Finals/Superbowl? Me neither.
The funny thing is Haulport keeps harping about tournaments. At least currently a "boring" fighter like Fitch can keep winning and not get a title shot at the promoter's discretion -- in Haulport's all-tournaments-all-the-time fantasy world, every final would be Fitch/Mendes/Everyone else he complains about.
" If you cut guys with one loss (harris, Duffee), yet leave bonnar/hardy/gurgel(before the final cut), how can you justify it? There is a double standard with Zuffa, you cannot deny that."
They keep guys they like and cut guys they don't. That's the standard. A winner will pretty much never be cut, boring or not.
As you said, there are plenty of "compelling" fighters who are not cut despite terrible records (Hardy and Matt Brown come to mind).
Herring In A Fur Coat -
Yeah it's working out great for boxing...
It actually is...
the fighters just want fair negotiations and testing.
I don't think it is entirely ZUFFA's fault either. There are plenty of boring fights outside of ZUFFA where fighters just go in and point their opponents to win a decision.
Ben Askren is an example of this. He's won his last five fights by decision. Anyone think he's under ZUFFA's radar? Fuck no, not until he starts knocking people out.
I think a lot of it has to do with fight camps. They're the ones putting the game plans together, not ZUFFA. Greg Jackson could care less what ZUFFA thinks or what they want. The hay-maker days are over guys.
CaptainKirk - Yea Diaz brothers bring it too.
Cant believe Orcus is actually giving Fedor props.
check out the date. This was BEFORE he started Fedor bashing/discrediting every chance he got.
2009 and before, orcus had many many praises for Fedor.
Herring In A Fur Coat -Lol at thisTweener - Condit's win was great.
Will you people shut the fuck up about that fight already.
Preach on brotha.