Top 3 or four of the 80’s 90’s era? I could go with that. Of all time?, just no.
We didn’t see his true prime, he was locked up in his prime years, same as Ali lost his prime over being barred from boxing because of the draft dodging.
2 Likes
Ali still ended up being the best HW before and after his ban. Tyson never regained his shit after the Buster Douglas fight. He was one of the best fighters in the world, but he wasn’t THE best again like Ali was.
You’re right, I should really be giving Tyson credit for beating prime fighters when he didn’t actually do that.
Trevor Berbick should get credit for beating a prime Ali. Apparently we just say that everyone was in their prime and it magically becomes truth and every victory has equal weight LOL
Not even sure what your position is here. My position is that both guys lost prime years. The difference is that Ali ascended to the very pinnacle of the HW division after the ban.
1 Like
That title belongs to either Bruce Lee or Rickson
Assuming you’re addressing me, I was responding to JD and his claim of “bias”. He says Tyson beat guys who were in the middle of their prime prime and stopped them from having years of dominance…when they were already in semi-retirement after having had 10-15 years of dominance. And if you point that out, you’re “biased”.
I looked it up because I was curious:
Ali won the title against Liston and defended it nine times and then was stripped
He won it the 2nd time against Foreman and then defended it ten times
Tyson won it in 1986 and then defended it 9 times.
He arguably became the undisputed HW champion again after beating Bruno and then Seldon but had zero successful defenses because he then immediately got beat up twice by Holyfield.
When talking about the HW GOAT, Tyson and Ali shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence. As each other.
Yet they universally are mentioned in the same sentence. So guess you’re wrong
Ring Magazine: If you mention 1 and 9 together; ok.
The Ring: If you mention 2 and 17 together; ok.
Bleacher Report: 1 and 10
The Fight City: 1 and somewhere below 12
BoxingNewsOnline: 1 and somewhere after 10
SportsZion: 1 and 9
I could go on but you get the picture. Btw; only one of the above publications don’t have Holmes rated much higher than Tyson.
Tyson v Green
black on black crime
kid could smash
The Douglas fight was way before jail. Try again fanboy.
Reading comprehension isn’t your strong point.
And you’re putting words in my mouth I didn’t specifically say.
I already said Holmes was past his prime, but he wasn’t “done”. He had a bunch of fights and good success after he fought Tyson.
Nobody said Tyson “derailed” Holmes in his prime.
But Tyson did run through him. It wasn’t even close.
If you can’t give Tyson credit for destroying one of the GOATS who was a little past his prime – you are biased.
You implied that Spinks was past his prime.
Yet again, showing obvious bias and refusing to give Tyson credit.
Tyson derailed a historic and undefeated run.
Nobody was calling Spinks old before the Tyson fight.
Nobody was calling him one of the GOATS either.
But he was another very good fighter who Tyson just ran over.
Credit is due.
There are fighters I have rooted against or wasn’t a fan of at times for whatever reason.
I still give them there due credit for their skills and accomplishments.
Your arguments against Tyson are old cliches and repeated talking points. They lack context and any true understanding of the significance of various events.
Tyson didn’t just beat a bunch of scrubs and has-beens.
He beat a lot of very tough and very good fighters, and a few great ones.
It is valid to point out that the mid 80s era looks weaker in hindsight, because if how easily Tyson beat some of the top guys if the time.
It is an argument made almost completely from a position of biased hindsight.
That said… Nobody is suggesting the 80s were the best era for HWs either.
Both the 70s and the 90s were golden eras by comparison.
But that doesn’t invalidate Tyson’s historic run.
Muhammed Ali said publically that Tyson could be the greatest, and even said Tyson would have beaten him.
Of course Tyson returned the respect.
Point is, nobody in the know was saying Tyson overrated back then.
It’s called revisionist history.
You use confirmation bias to paint events in a way that supports your narrative.
You seem to do that a lot.
1 Like
Official #1 Idiot Thread Of The Year
And it was after something else.
Acknowledging reality is not being a fanboy.
How many people are calling Tyson GOAT or Comparing him to Ali on this thread?
His prime was too short to be the GOAT – and most of his career after his initial run was more about his personal life than his boxing ability.
Boxing was secondary, and a means to get paid.
Tyson is more fairly ranked in terms of peak ability.
How good was he and who could he have beaten at his very best?
IMO he ranks very highly on that list, among the top handful of HWs ever.
That is kinda my point, that (per the thread title) that Tyson isn’t overhyped when it comes to educated discussions about his place in history. He’s generally somewhere in the double digits.
Not all discussions are educated LOL.
Not exactly sure where I rank Tyson career wise.
I mean, if we worst case scenario it, and go back from Jack Johnson to the Klitschkos… That probably puts Tyson around 12ish.
Johnson
Louis
Marciano
Liston
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Holyfield
Bowe
Leiws
Vlad
Vitali
… I’m leaving a few out, but that’s the idea.
That’s assuming we automatically put evey name over Tyson.
I don’t think I agree with that.
IMO, Tyson being the youngest HW champion ever, and the dominant way he did it, has to count for something.
I can’t put him at the top of the list. That’s Ali IMO.
But I wouldn’t be putting him at the bottom either.
But again… PEAK ABILITY ranking is a different conversation.
Riddick Bowe and Mike Tyson, IMO, are both guys on the list of their peak ability being obviously greater than their overall career rankings.
In terms of peak ability, I put both Tyson and Bowe in the top handful of best HWs ever.
Not gonna try and rank them now – or get into individual matchups.
That’s a time consuming conversation, and it’s been had here many times before.
Maybe another day… If things go that direction…
But generally speaking, I rank Tyson in the top handful of guys for peak ability – and probably somewhere in the top 10 in terms of all time HWs overall.
I don’t get into specific rankings as much as I used to.
A lot of it is subjective.
Accomplishments can pretty easily be spun to support a personal bias – especially by guys who really understand the context of the eras.
Being the best in the world for any length of time is a big deal.
It’s an extremely elite club.
GOAT status is another level.
But things are also relative to era.
It’s a fun conversation.
If you had him between 10th and 20th I think you’re with most avid boxing followers / historians. Peak ability IMO is hard to judge. You had guys who dominated every bit as much as Tyson did and for longer periods against more elite competition. He was dynamic as fuck and was unlike any heavyweight I have seen in my time; I will say that. Was he as elite and as effective as guys in his era? Not in my opinion but I would rather pay for a prime Tyson ppv fight than any other HW in my viewing era. I know that isn’t even close.
My main point isn’t that he isn’t an all time great, it is that people have gotten on this bandwagon that he is overrated but when you look at the educated boxing fans and writers etc they don’t normally put him in a position that would say he’s overrated. He’s kind rated right where he should be. Maybe a little high in my opinion (I don’t know how people could rank him all time over Holmes or Holyfield for example) but that’s mincing.
1 Like
We are probably pretty close to agreeing.
I probably tend to rank him a little higher than you.
But if we felt exactly the same – we would probably just be thumb-upping each other’s posts and the a conversation wouldn’t be happening.
I can’t Rank Holmes over Tyson though.
Tyson destroyed him.
Maybe if Holmes didn’t have like another 20 fights after the Tyson loss, I could argue that Holmes was “done”.
But dude had a competitive win against Ray Mercer after Tyson.
If the fight was even close, it would be different.
Maybe I can see an argument career wise.
Peak ability though… Tyson just a bad matchup for Holmes IMO