It's very much like the legalization issue. Until we have moved forward from the prohibition approach, it will have meaning.
Fuck the white collar conservatives!!!
If they are worried about fighters being lathergic then they should start calling fights once guys are super gassed and start dropping their hands.
Nick Diaz can smoke all the pot he wants, he just cannot fight under NSAC. As a grown adult he has a choice to either smoke pot and not fight professionally or stop smoking pot and be a professional fighter. If I owned a company were I drug tested my employees randomly, everyone has the right not to work for my company. But to take the job, fail a piss test and then expect the rules to change is a joke. I also believe Marijuana should be legal.
disbeliever - For the record I agree marijuana should be legal.
That said, it is NOT legal, and the AC has deemed it illegal to have in your system. Fighters know this before they even get a lic. to fight.
That doesn't relate to the question of whether the testing is meaningful, whether the testing is appropriate to the reasoning Kizer cites for it, and whether changes should be made to the testing process.
disbeliever -rushinbear - YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SET OF RULES AND RULES WITH LITTLE TO NO GRAY AREAS (FOR INTERPRETATION REASONS). You may not like the rules and what should or should not be included and might strongly disagree with the reasons the rulemakers have for putting them in place but the fact remains there are rules. Even rules about legal strikes, what can be done to a downed opponent or one that is kneeling, etc. Sure, pure old days of NO HOLDS BARRED was great but not today.
So if the rules say marijuana is not allowed then you have to abide by it.
This 1000%.
If you think rules are stupid, then devote the time to petition they be changed.
Complaining about it when a fighter gets popped is retarded. The rules were in place, it was in fact a rule, and the fighters knew about the rule ahead of time.
anything relating to marijuana is 100% grey area, sorry to break it to you guys. i understand what your saying regarding black and white rules in the sports but the real reason marijuana isn't allowed is because it is a sched 1 illegal drug. it doesn't have anything to do with improved performance or desensitization or any of that bs that kizer and the commission are spewing. to seem professional, the commission is just keeping inline with what has traditionally been said about marijuana. 16 states have medical marijuana while marijuana is illegal federally. on average, each year, a new state passes a medical marijuana bill. the people of the country are stating their opinion on the subject... and it is a grey area. diaz had a license and everyone knew it. it was no secret at all. it was even discussed on the primetime segments. hrt is not known by the casual fan which is why it was allowed... no fuss. same documentation, same exceptions to the rule really. but everything involving marijuana is grey.
Kizer's reasoning behind it is so stupid. 
chaplinshouse -rushinbear - YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SET OF RULES AND RULES WITH LITTLE TO NO GRAY AREAS (FOR INTERPRETATION REASONS). You may not like the rules and what should or should not be included and might strongly disagree with the reasons the rulemakers have for putting them in place but the fact remains there are rules. Even rules about legal strikes, what can be done to a downed opponent or one that is kneeling, etc. Sure, pure old days of NO HOLDS BARRED was great but not today.
So if the rules say marijuana is not allowed then you have to abide by it.
OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE RULES IN LIFE, IT'D BE CHAOS WITHOUT IT. The rules should hold direct relevance to their whole purpose as an entity. Their primary focus is supposed to be fighter safety and fight fairness (PEDs). If someone smokes a joint a week before a fight, that doesn't fall in either category and attempting to act on issues outside of this is simply overstepping your boundaries as a commission.
"You may not like the rules and what should or should not be included and might strongly disagree with the reasons the rulemakers have for putting them in place but the fact remains there are rules."
What kind of logic is this? There needs to be no sound logic behind the rules? Don't question bad rules? If society had this type of bend over mentality nothing unfair would ever change.
Even rules about legal strikes, what can be done to a downed opponent or one that is kneeling, etc.
That's a really poor example. Those rules have logic to them and fit in the AC's job description (fighter safety). It sounds like you think people are saying do away with all rules? No one is arguing that. Just the rules that serve no purpose. Safety and fairness is their supposed purpose in life. Making rules that extend beyond that is nothing more than playing parent to grown men and shouldn't be tolerated.
Yes Nick should have known better than to take medication he needs and followed these unfair rules, but at the same time it should have been a dead issue had things been set up fairly. An AC should not be able to deny a person legal medication unless it directly interferes with fair / safe combat. During the fight, ok, but I'm yet to hear sound logic on why it's not allowed leading UP to a fight.
sorry that you seem to have taken exception to everything I said and that my example is ,,, ummm poor. ok I guess.
I am so so so glad that Nick did not get the decision in the fight. Can you imagine this place had this fight been made a no decision LOL
In the end the same fight is going to happen. Nick will fight GSP. It will after all be ALL ABOUT THE MONEY... ah oh, I just opened up another foul smelling can...
meaningless.
Actually, the opposite. Having a doctor's recommendation to take a substance (oh, i don't know...like testosterone???) seems like a real thing to me. And honestly, Testosterone is no joke in terms of the mood enhancing effects. Been on them and can legit say that it was the first time i've ever been so angry as to have thrown something against a wall (granted, it was a pillow, but that's beside the point...).
Kiser is living in the world he was born into, not the world that's NOW. Times change, but apparently Kiser does not.
Add into this the fact that MJ stays in your system far longer for a testing purpose, and it could very well be (in fact, very likely) that Diaz got high a week prior and this is what caused it, not actually being high for the fight.
Bullshit rule, but doubly so if he's got a doc's recommendation.
It should be a fine if anything not a suspension.
disbeliever -
They are the rules of his employment, when his employment needs a license to fight. They are not ignoring state laws. They govern sports. They make the rules to play sports. The AC is not saying Nick can't light up in NV. They are saying if he wants to fight in NV, he cannot.
So would it be accurate to say that you believe the implementation and reasoning behind rules is irrelevant, that rules should never be changed, and that the discussion of these things is therefore pointless and should not take place?
The reasons kiser gives about MJ reinforces that he has no credit to speak on marijuana and when he speaks on the matter it goes to show he has no idea about the subject matter.
"I'm gonna ban this substance because I think it can impair the fighter making him lethargic or slow...... But I have no proof of this it's just facts I gathered from 1954 referee madness"
disbeliever - and lol @ saying I assume first and use logic later.
I understand the way employment works. Apparently you do not.
well if i don't go to work for a month straight without a reason... then ill get fired. if i had surgery and had documentation from a doctor, then i will still have my job. diaz has a license.... and diaz and the ufc had enough time to document or look into the issue further. its well known diaz uses marijuana. the ufc took a lot of time and energy into promoting this fight. did noone look into this further?
and if california license doesn't matter in nevada.... then why should the Nevada State Athletic Commission matter anywhere but Nevada? if diaz and condit want to fight next month in ohio or washington... then what is stopping them?
Fedors Jim Jams -disbeliever - and lol @ saying I assume first and use logic later.
I understand the way employment works. Apparently you do not.
well if i don't go to work for a month straight without a reason... then ill get fired. if i had surgery and had documentation from a doctor, then i will still have my job. diaz has a license.... and diaz and the ufc had enough time to document or look into the issue further. its well known diaz uses marijuana. the ufc took a lot of time and energy into promoting this fight. did noone look into this further?
They expected Diaz to stop in time to pass his test, which he has done successfully in every US commissioned fight since the Gomi overturn. No one really knows what happened this time- he might have smoked no more and no later than usual, but did something different diet-wise this time.
and if california license doesn't matter in nevada.... then why should the Nevada State Athletic Commission matter anywhere but Nevada? if diaz and condit want to fight next month in ohio or washington... then what is stopping them?
In theory he could, but state commissions a) tend to honor each other's bans and CA is not likely to let him fight while NV has him on suspension b) the UFC would probably not put him on another card while NV had him on suspension as NV would not be happy with them and c) state commissions get very upset when fighters flout their bans, so even if Nick found a promotion that could get him on a card somewhere else, NV might never license him again because of it.
***every fight he actually made it to the test for, that is... Jay Heiron probably still pissed about that one.
I dont really know if the testing for marijuana is a gray. I gotta believe that there was a limit on the reading that was exceeded that said, yep Positive. Like an alcohol test. The rules in many states say if you blow over 0.8 then that is a positive. If you blow 0.7, then lucky you, not positive. Of course they can try to get you for other things.
what does the rule say? does it say a fighter cant use it during the fight like he said about alcohol.
if it for fighters safety,then they need a better test.
THP - It should be the same any any test of this nature, you test for T levels in testosterone users to ensure they aren't doping, you should test the level of canaboids in a person to ensure they aren't stoned while fighting. Asking someone to stop 10 days before a fight, but never asking someone to do the same with testosterone just doesn't make any sense at all.
d idnt see this.no need 4 my post
disbeliever -HexRei -disbeliever -
They are the rules of his employment, when his employment needs a license to fight. They are not ignoring state laws. They govern sports. They make the rules to play sports. The AC is not saying Nick can't light up in NV. They are saying if he wants to fight in NV, he cannot.
So would it be accurate to say that you believe the implementation and reasoning behind rules is irrelevant, that rules should never be changed, and that the discussion of these things is therefore pointless and should not take place?
That's not what I said, at all. What i said was, there is a rule in place that if a fighter wants to keep his license, which is a requirement to be employed by the UFC, he needs to follow whatever rules the AC have mandated. You agree to that when you get a license, and you agree they can revoke your license if/when you break the rules.
You want a job, you follow the rules of the job. None of this fuck the man Ill do what I want BS. And the excuse "everyone knows Nick smokes" is idiotic. So because we know Nick is a drug user, him ignoring the rules should not matter? he habitually ignores his responsibilities of employment, which I find hilarious, because then he cries about wanting to get paid more. Really? So the example set is to fuck off at your job, ignore the obligations you agreed to, and then ask for more money? Honestly being a fighter is the only thing I think he could do, so he should be happy he is lucky enough to make a good living doing it, and stop fucking around while there are plenty of hard working people out of jobs right now.
I personally agree banning MJ is stupid, as its a pretty mild drug, and as long as someone is not smoking a week of the fight, who cares. I can however understand what the words "commitment" and "obligation" mean. When you agree to something, you agree to fucking do it. If the AC currently says MJ is banned, the fighters know this. Its on Nick to either not smoke leading up to the fight, or not be around people smoking for second hand readings.
It just amazes me this generation of entitled kids who cry that Diaz is being punished over "something so stupid". Its the fucking rules right now, rules that Nick and his manager agreed to follow. Just like he agreed to do press to fight GSP, then after ditching the pressers cries he doesnt get paid enough. Man up to your responsibilities you agreed to. If Nick or anyone else has issues, him and Dana can go talk to the AC to see if the rule can be changed or modified.
Ok, but this thread is about whether the testing is meaningful, addresses the reasoning Kizer lists, and whether it should be changed. It's not about whether Nick should be punished which is a foregone conclusion.
yeah i agree organizations shouldn't exactly step on each others toes when outside of jurisdictions but this kizer is just such a liar. if he would just come out and state the truth... that marijuana is illegal so we deem it illegal as well, then i could at least believe him. but what he spews is just so bs. if the nevada commission doesn't want to respect a california license then why should anyone respect a nevada license. its basically ufc's home and so it cant crap and sleep in the same spot. but this is exactly the type of bs that will stop ufc from even being considered a real sport. nba, nfl, nhl, and mlb all have headquarters in new york... while ufc's is in las vegas and can't even step foot in new york.
disbeliever -HexRei -disbeliever -HexRei -disbeliever -
They are the rules of his employment, when his employment needs a license to fight. They are not ignoring state laws. They govern sports. They make the rules to play sports. The AC is not saying Nick can't light up in NV. They are saying if he wants to fight in NV, he cannot.
So would it be accurate to say that you believe the implementation and reasoning behind rules is irrelevant, that rules should never be changed, and that the discussion of these things is therefore pointless and should not take place?
That's not what I said, at all. What i said was, there is a rule in place that if a fighter wants to keep his license, which is a requirement to be employed by the UFC, he needs to follow whatever rules the AC have mandated. You agree to that when you get a license, and you agree they can revoke your license if/when you break the rules.
You want a job, you follow the rules of the job. None of this fuck the man Ill do what I want BS. And the excuse "everyone knows Nick smokes" is idiotic. So because we know Nick is a drug user, him ignoring the rules should not matter? he habitually ignores his responsibilities of employment, which I find hilarious, because then he cries about wanting to get paid more. Really? So the example set is to fuck off at your job, ignore the obligations you agreed to, and then ask for more money? Honestly being a fighter is the only thing I think he could do, so he should be happy he is lucky enough to make a good living doing it, and stop fucking around while there are plenty of hard working people out of jobs right now.
I personally agree banning MJ is stupid, as its a pretty mild drug, and as long as someone is not smoking a week of the fight, who cares. I can however understand what the words "commitment" and "obligation" mean. When you agree to something, you agree to fucking do it. If the AC currently says MJ is banned, the fighters know this. Its on Nick to either not smoke leading up to the fight, or not be around people smoking for second hand readings.
It just amazes me this generation of entitled kids who cry that Diaz is being punished over "something so stupid". Its the fucking rules right now, rules that Nick and his manager agreed to follow. Just like he agreed to do press to fight GSP, then after ditching the pressers cries he doesnt get paid enough. Man up to your responsibilities you agreed to. If Nick or anyone else has issues, him and Dana can go talk to the AC to see if the rule can be changed or modified.
Ok, but this thread is about whether the testing is meaningful, addresses the reasoning Kizer lists, and whether it should be changed. It's not about whether Nick should be punished which is a foregone conclusion.
And the direction went another way, so I followed.
Carry on with your discussion about the test then
You took it that direction... Chaplin even outright said in that first post of his that you replied to: "Yes Nick should have known better than to take medication" and makes it utterly and absolutely clear that he is arguing about the rules themselves, and the reasoning, necessity, and implementation of them.
But yes, I it would be nice to keep it about the test since there a trillion threads vainly and pointlessly debating whether Nick should be punished.