I had ACDF fusion C-5/C-6 in May and I train two times a week at Relson Gracie BJJ in Littleton CO. I just let guys know when we roll live that I will tap ASAP to any type of neck crank. I'm just not ready for that yet. Most of the guys at the gym know this and they work on trying to catch me in arm bars and other submissions instead. I feel great, but still have a huge problem sleeping in a regular bed. I sleep most of the time in a recliner. Less stress on my neck. I think I'm going to buy one of those craftmatic adjustable beds :)
I had a lumbar fusion close to seven years ago and returned to fighting in the UFC 15 months after my surgery where I won a fight of the night performance. I also helped Tito Ortiz have multiple level fusions, cervical and lumbar, and he returned to fighting after those as well.
I now work with patients who need help to find surgical and non surgical solutions to their back pain issues. People don't realize the different options available when it comes to spine surgeries. There are still doctors doing big open procedures through the back or the front. My surgery was done from the side, laterally, where there was minimal cutting through muscle tissue. My last surgery was a lumbar artificial disk and I was up walking around the hospital with no brace or support less than six hours after my surgery. I was swimming within four days and back to grappling two months afterwards.
Contact me directly if I can help in any way.
Malachy Friedman - i am getting a different surgery that will let me return to intense training
ask about
"microsurgical laminoforaminotomy and microdiscectomy. This procedure would allow the surgeon to remove the fragments beneath the left c7 nerve root without fusing your spine and potentially allowing you to return to vigorous athletic activities."
A microdiscectomy and laminectomy can be great surgeries, if they are applicable. Your disk is like a jelly donut and quite often the jelly squirts out the side and pushes on the nerves going down your neck or leg. That results in the nerve pain you feel down to your fingers or toes. In most cases you can do a very minimal surgery where the doc just shaves off the "jelly" and the nerve pain is gone immediately. Or with a laminectomy they cut off a chunk of bone that is rubbing against the nerves. The problem with that one is it can lead to instability that will make another surgery necessary, normally a fusion, in the future.
If your "donut" is worn away and the "jelly" is squirting out the side then those procedures won't work. Then you need a fusion or artificial disk. When I had my first fusion I was back in the cage at the six month mark training at full speed, with my doctor's approval. A fusion is basically like a broken arm that needs to be put in a cast and allowed to heal. I could see on the X-rays that my bones were now completely white across them and I was good to go.
Nate 'Rock' Quarry - I had a lumbar fusion close to seven years ago and returned to fighting in the UFC 15 months after my surgery where I won a fight of the night performance. I also helped Tito Ortiz have multiple level fusions, cervical and lumbar, and he returned to fighting after those as well.
I now work with patients who need help to find surgical and non surgical solutions to their back pain issues. People don't realize the different options available when it comes to spine surgeries. There are still doctors doing big open procedures through the back or the front. My surgery was done from the side, laterally, where there was minimal cutting through muscle tissue. My last surgery was a lumbar artificial disk and I was up walking around the hospital with no brace or support less than six hours after my surgery. I was swimming within four days and back to grappling two months afterwards.
Contact me directly if I can help in any way.
Nate,
Just wanted to say that you were my inspiration for actually getting the ACDF done. I had it done last May at 39 years old. The summer before that I had run a Tough Mudder and had fought in my last MMA fight. The pain and suffering in my back (I also have two blown discs in L5/ L6 from an on duty car accident responding to a robbery) was getting worse and I could not keep up with being a full time law enforcement officer and an adrenaline junky :).
I read about and watched you go through your trials and tribulations and it made me want to see if I could keep up my quality of life. My doctor who happened to be a very athletic guy really thought I could go without getting the L5/L6 surgery and just keep up with stretching and proper weight lifting, but he was very adamant about the ACDF for my neck (it had gotten to the point where I was losing arm strength in my right arm and my right arm was getting noticeably smaller). I had the surgery in May and at the end of July was already doing yoga and weight lifting. I started back to BJJ in September. I've always had the drive to not live my life in the slow lane from my military career to my almost 16 years in LE, but I have to say your story was a HUGE impact on my decision to move forward.
Thanks,
John Fabbricatore
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Wow, thanks John, that means a lot to me.
My surgery was quite frankly, the worst time in my life. I had just fought for the world title and now three months later I couldn't pick up my five year old little girl. So I opt to get this surgery, go through the whole thing alone, even being told by Pat Milatich that if I get surgery I'll not only never fight again, I'll never be able to pick up my little girl. So I was terrified. I'm talking breaking down crying in the doctor's parking lot terrified.
Now nearly 7 years later I was able to fight 6 times with two fight of the night performances and am able to share my experience with other people and hear stories like yours. I always tell everyone that although I'm a spokesman for the company, Nuvasive, and the procedure, XLIF, I don't get a commission if someone opts to have surgery. My goal is to arm people with an education so they know the right questions to ask their doctors. And, oh my god, do I get pissed when people don't come to me for help! Josh Rafferty, remember him from TUF 1? Had a cervical fusion and didn't want to bother me. A year later he's still in pain. Whereas another big name fighter and I talk, now he's back fighting in the big show. And I get the pride in knowing that I helped get him back on track to following his dreams.
That's what it's all about to me. Finding meaning in the suffering that we all go through. And for me that means sharing my story and helping to alleviate some of the fear that we have in regards to back pain.
I know I'm not a doctor. I can't recommend a microdiscectomy or an XLIF or even yoga. But I can share my story and at least give people the support I didn't have.
Nate,
I am very happy that you had a great outcome. Its not only a testament to your surgeon skill but your incredible physical gifts and dogged determintation.
Unfortunately my pain management practice is filled with hundreds of surgical failures. Surgery works for some. Not all surgeries and surgeons are created equally. Nor is each problem the same. After 17 yrs of experience in this field and contact with world class athletes like yourself, I have reservations about spinal surgery except under very specific circumstances (intractable severe pain refractory to exhaustive conservative management or progressive neurologic damage.)
Anyone considering surgery should do their homework on their condition, get multiple opinions and research the top surgeons.
Then read this article and the multitude of others with similar results.
FROM: SPINE (Phila Pa 1976) 2011 (Feb 15); 36 (4): 320–331 ~ FULL TEXT
Nguyen TH, Randolph DC, Talmage J, Succop P, Travis R.
From the Division of Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Department of Environmental Health, University of Cincinnati College of Medicine, Milford, OH; Meharry Medical College, Nashville, TN; and Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, University of Kentucky College of Medicine, Lexington, KY.
The Abstract:
STUDY DESIGN: Historical cohort study.
OBJECTIVE: To determine objective outcomes of return to work (RTW), permanent disability, postsurgical complications, opiate utilization, and reoperation status for chronic low back pain subjects with lumbar fusion. Similarly, RTW status, permanent disability, and opiate utilization were also measured for nonsurgical controls.
SUMMARY OF BACKGROUND DATA: A historical cohort study of workers' compensation (WC) subjects with lumbar arthrodesis and randomly selected controls to evaluate multiple objective outcomes has not been previously published.
METHODS: A total of 725 lumbar fusion cases were compared to 725 controls who were randomly selected from a pool of WC subjects with chronic low back pain diagnoses with dates of injury between January 1, 1999 and December 31, 2001. The study ended on January 31, 2006. Main outcomes were reported as RTW status 2 years after the date of injury (for controls) or 2 years after date of surgery (for cases). Disability, reoperations, complications, opioid usage, and deaths were also determined.
RESULTS: Two years after fusion surgery, 26% (n = 188) of fusion cases had RTW, while 67% (n = 483) of nonsurgical controls had RTW (P= 0.001) within 2 years from the date of injury. The reoperation rate was 27% (n = 194) for surgical patients. Of the lumbar fusion subjects, 36% (n = 264) had complications. Permanent disability rates were 11% (n = 82) for cases and 2% (n = 11) for nonoperative controls (P= 0.001). Seventeen surgical patients and 11 controls died by the end of the study (P = 0.26). For lumbar fusion subjects, daily opioid use increased 41% after surgery, with 76% (n = 550) of cases continuing opioid use after surgery. Total number of days off work was more prolonged for cases compared to controls, 1140 and 316 days, respectively (P < 0.001). Final multivariate, logistic regression analysis indicated the number of days off before surgery odds ratio [OR], 0.94 (95% confidence interval [CI], 0.92-0.97); legal representation OR, 3.43 (95% CI, 1.58-7.41); daily morphine usage OR, 0.83 (95% CI, 0.71-0.98); reoperation OR, 0.42 (95% CI, 0.26-0.69); and complications OR, 0.25 (95% CI, 0.07-0.90), are significant predictors of RTW for lumbar fusion patients.
CONCLUSIONS: This Lumbar fusion for the diagnoses of disc degeneration, disc herniation, and/or radiculopathy in a WC setting is associated with significant increase in disability, opiate use, prolonged work loss, and poor RTW status.
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.frame&page=1
^this thread has A LOT of info and the stories of several UG'rs. It's been running for years!
I had c5-c6 fusion and won major tournament titles within 18 months
I have a very relevant story to add because i underwent the same surgery. I am sharing with the intention of giving you some hope. About 4 years ago I broke my neck between c5 and c6. I was set to make my pro debut about a month after the incident. Obviously I was not able to do so. I had to go into surgery and the doctors to a piece of bone from my hip and did a bone fusion. I was in a neck brace and I went in for check ups each month to monitor the progress. I was not allowed to lift anything during this time and was ordered to stay off my feet as much as possible. After the ninth month the doctor said I was ready to have the brace come off. He said that the bone fusion had taken perfectly and that I would be at no more risk than anyone else and the only thing I should notice is a little bit less flexibility. I went back to working out and training and six months later I successfully made my pro debut. I have been fighting almost 4 years since the accident and I am 11-1 as a pro fighter. I am not saying this is the normal outcome of a case like this but it is possible. I kept a very healthy diet during my injury and never skipped any physical therapy or rehab as the doctor advised. I know this was a summarized version of the story but I'm currently at work and did not have a lot of time. Anyone feel free to pm me for more details. Best of luck.
Man, you guys are all my heroes! I'm praying by bulge never requires surgery because I don't know if I could do it. I would have an easier time with letting a rattlensnake tickle my balls than a cervical injection! I'm extremely squeamish around needles. The cervical neck needle is the scariest one of all. I realize surgery is not an injection, but insurance will not pay for surgery without trying injections!
Salut to all of the broke necks!
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gilbertfan - I am a pain management specialist who did a fellowship in spine interventions. The majority of patients who come to see me have had spinal fusions by a surgeon.
I am also a ringside doc as well and a BJJer.
Competing in MMA after a spinal fusion depends on many factors. The condition and stability of the rest of your spine, the number of levels involved, the approach and type of fusion selected, any other medical conditions, h/o smoking, h/o poor healing or scar/keloid formation among many others.
In general multi-level fusions have dubious success rates in healthy non-combat exposed patients. Exposing these to the impact of combat is foolish because of the risk of failure and chronic severe pain or even worse neurologic deficits.
Small minimally invasive techniques are tolerated better and are less succeptible to cataastrophic failures, pseudoarthrosis, hardware failure, infections and scar formation(arachnoiditis)
So it all depends on your particular condition, your current state and what they plan on doing. Everybody is different. But if it were me and my livelihood did not depend on it, I would stick to grappling and not allow my head to get smashed in MMA. Chronic pain is terrible. I treat it everyday. It would be terrible to have a successful surgery that fails as a result of competition.
If your surgeon tells you not to compete don't go looking for someone to OK it after he operates because your surgeon will have had first hand knowledge of your spine and will possibly be unwilling to pick up the pieces if you shatter his good work. This type of revision would almost definitely result in a poor outcome. Just my opinion.
PM me if you want to chat
Now that's a solid answer. 
Nate 'Rock' Quarry - Wow, thanks John, that means a lot to me.
My surgery was quite frankly, the worst time in my life. I had just fought for the world title and now three months later I couldn't pick up my five year old little girl. So I opt to get this surgery, go through the whole thing alone, even being told by Pat Milatich that if I get surgery I'll not only never fight again, I'll never be able to pick up my little girl. So I was terrified. I'm talking breaking down crying in the doctor's parking lot terrified.
Now nearly 7 years later I was able to fight 6 times with two fight of the night performances and am able to share my experience with other people and hear stories like yours. I always tell everyone that although I'm a spokesman for the company, Nuvasive, and the procedure, XLIF, I don't get a commission if someone opts to have surgery. My goal is to arm people with an education so they know the right questions to ask their doctors. And, oh my god, do I get pissed when people don't come to me for help! Josh Rafferty, remember him from TUF 1? Had a cervical fusion and didn't want to bother me. A year later he's still in pain. Whereas another big name fighter and I talk, now he's back fighting in the big show. And I get the pride in knowing that I helped get him back on track to following his dreams.
That's what it's all about to me. Finding meaning in the suffering that we all go through. And for me that means sharing my story and helping to alleviate some of the fear that we have in regards to back pain.
I know I'm not a doctor. I can't recommend a microdiscectomy or an XLIF or even yoga. But I can share my story and at least give people the support I didn't have.
Another damn good insight.
nate its great to hear from you on this
I talked to alot of doctors about the surgery you had(as little as I know about it) and they hadnt heard about it.
I had bilateral microdiscectomy 2years ago.
3 years ago I had the injury
I got my arm strength back in both arms for the most part
the pain is still there and my neck is still very weak
so I am dealing with what feels like a permanent injury. But there is some good news. I switched my training from MMA training to gi jiu jitsu (there are less guillotines and the collar control rather than neck control is better for me) but I have had to change my game entirely and I cannot let anyone get a hold of my head or neck.
I can't complain bc I am training and sometimes really enjoying it and having good rolls. But the competitive side of me can be really frustrated bc I know the disadvantage I am at physically although I hope to compete at Jiu Jitsu at the very least again.
Thanks for taking your time. This has been one of the hardest things I've dealt with.
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Excellent Thread !! Thanks to all the posters .
ttt
Imagine my suprise to find a thread I created 2.5 years ago pop up this morning with tons of great new information from guys who have walked the walk.
Thank you gentlemen. I sincerely appreciate the continued sharing of expereince and knowledge you shared.
The young man I orignially asked about decided to walk away from the sport, and we both felt it was in his mutual interest with 2 fusions in his cervical vertebrae. He was far too young and had too many opportunities in other areas of his life to pursue. Hopefully he's taken the passion for combat sports and transferred it to other areas of his life. (I've lost touch with him.)
I'm a visual thinker. The talk of jelly donuts immediately reminded me of this vid..
I herniated a couple dics (L4-L5, L5-S1) and had a few more bulging when I was 19. Doc wouldn't fuse the discs because I was so young so he just cleaned out the jelly from the herniated ones with surgery and sent me on my way with a few words of caution.
25 now, havent had any more surgery done on my back since then. I train bjj and it isn't really an issue. Just maybe a sore back for a day but no lingering pains.
Always some degree of discomfort with it, but mah'faka that's just life.