ISCF Helps Make MMA Legal

Underground
41

Notice how the ISCF people call anyone not on their side 'criminals'. I was denied. Am I a criminal Tripp? I don't appreciate it and you guys need to stop saying that people were denied because they were criminals. This is bullshit that needs to quit being said immediately. Am I freaking selling Ecstacy?  Is David Oblas a criminal too? Watch what you say.....

No one is 'bashing' the ISCF on this thread. We are pointing out some problems. Everyone has said positive things about them. No one has said they need to be run out of Georgia. Everyone agrees the ISCF needs to stay. But being the sole sanctioning body is not right.

"The ISCF and Mike Carlson fought to make MMA legal in Ga."

Yes they did. And they did it for their own interests. Everyone leaves out the fact that Mike Carlson is also a promoter. How can you keep saying the ISCF AND Mike Carlson. Mike Carlson is their WORLD representative. So Mike Carlson IS the ISCF.

"Also, Evolution Promotions, who promoted an event last December in GA that I fought on, is headed by people who are not on the ISCF board or involved in the ISCF in any way. "

Are you sure? I could swear that that guy used to do stuff with James Corbett and the regionals or something. I'm pretty sure I've also seen him do backstage stuff for the IKF/ISCF. Am I wrong on that Cam? He has never been financially involved with ISCF related shows either?? James, you are on here, was he involved with the ISCF 'in any way'?

"If someone works at Kroger and they rob someone, does that mean Kroger robs people? "

Funny how you would use that argument in the ISCF's defense but you guys used it against me when I refused to quit being friends with Jamie.

42

"As of January 2005, the ISCF has been contacted by approximately 20 more states asking to have the ISCF as the required Sanctioning Body over all Mixed Martial Arts events in their state."

Can you list the states? I guarantee you more people would speak up if they need their state may be affected.

43

Also, can you guys please answer the question about whether the IKF promotes it's own annual tournament or not?

44

"Grapple-I find it hard to believe that you think that a government regulatory agency would do a better job than a private company. When does the government EVER do anything better than a private entity?"

I have a lot of experience with the functioning of governmental agencies. Some are efficient, professional and fair; others are not so good. :) Speaking specifically of athletic commissions, I think the same premise is true. Athletic commissions are generally part time bodies made up of successful business types who have enough influence to secure an appointment. They are not full-time bureaucrats. Some commissioners are educated and honest; some are ignorant jackasses and buffoons. Of course, I have no idea what the GA Boxing Commission is like, but I take it that they are not held in high regard.

Obviously, I am most familiar with the NSAC, and they do things on a larger scale than most state commissions. I know some of the people involved with the NSAC, and I have great respect for them. I think they are very good at what they do, and likely much better than most any private organization you are going to find. They have come a long way since the days when they were openly hostile and dismissive of MMA.

Aside from that, though, the core issue to me is whether it is appropriate to have a private entity acting in a regulatory capacity. As a governmental entity, the NSAC is subject to specific laws and regulations that govern its functioning. The entire process is clearly set forth in the laws and regulations, and everyone must be licensed through a formal licensing process that provides a person with guarantees of due process. If someone feels wronged by being denied the privilege of licensure or as the result of another action of the Commission, that person can file an action in the district court seeking review of the decision and later appeal that decision to the Nevada Supreme Court. You might end up with the same result from the NSAC as you would from the ISCF, but when you are talking about a person's chosen occupation and livelihood, it simply makes me uncomfortable to entrust that to a private entity.

Please understand that I am in no way attempting to bash the ISCF -- I was just making an observation. I am interested in the potential future of MMA here in South Carolina, and there is a chance that I may have the opportunity to seek to undo its banning. I have some connections here in the General Assembly, but depending on my future employment prospects, I may or may not wish to become tangled up in an issue that might be of concern to a prospective future employer. If I do feel at liberty to take on that battle, then I am interested in all possibilities that would lead to legalization, including regulation by the ISCF or the State Athletic Commission.

45

When Shooto Americas co-sanctioned an event in Vegas with the NSAC I was more in awe of working with Marc Ratner then I was with any fighter. The NSAC has their shit together and more states could certainly learn from them.

46

OK, I called Steve Fossum today at 3:30PM EST. He did not answer and the call was forwarded to voicemail.

I left a message asking if the registration form on the website is the correct one, and if the address listed is indeed the one I need to send it to. I repeated my number twice as was asked in the voicemail and asked him to call me back as soon as he could.

I am now awaiting a call back. I will post here when I get additional info.

47

Johnny,

As far as I know, the gentlemen owning Evolution Promotions have no ties to the ISCF other than through their own promotion. Richard Cox assisted fighters from our camp at that time, but, had no official duties - administrative or timekeeping, judging, etc. - for the ISCF. So, to answer your question, Cam is correct regarding Evolution Promotions have no ties to ISCF prior to their promotional efforts.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

jc

48

we need you guys to get mma back in New York

49

Thanks James. I knew I had seen them before and I knew that they were indeed at least in the "ISCF circle of friends" but I did not know for sure what role they played.

I will be calling you this evening about the website stuff.

50

Sanctioning is important, but the ISCF and other bodies like ISKA, etc... have no legal authority.

So really, the role of a sanctioning body should be to define standards that unify promotions in terms of rules, safety, rankings, and champions... As well as controls over the judging process, officiating credentials and certification, and the weigh-in protocols.

For fines, bans, shut downs, securing fighter pay, etc... States are needed.

Sanctioning bodies should also provide arbitration for issues, contacts to promoters and teams for opportunities, rally sponsorship and TV opportunities on a larger scale (essentially unite the sport into a cohesive network).

Ultimately, MMA sanctioning bodies should be more along the lines of a sports development organization, like the NFL or PGA... MMA sanctioning bodies are not, cannot be, nor should they try to be like State Commissions.

51

As they say Less goverment and power to the people

52

TTT for the ISCF!!!

53

"If it's a professional pursuit, then usually it is treated as such and regulated by a governmental authority."

What governmental authority regulates pro football? Pro baseball? Pro hockey? Pro soccer? Pro golf? Pro auto racing? To my knowledge boxing is the only pro sport that is regulated by a governmental body. I know athletic commissions have jurisdiction over amateur sports but what involvement do they have in professional sports that are also regulated by NFL, Major League Baseball Commission, PGA, NASCAR,etc. These are not governmental bodies.

"I have been denied multiple times by the iscf"

See, this is where the half truths get started. Tell the whole truth. You were granted a promoters license by the ISCF, no? You were told you could promote ISCF as long as you weren't associated with convicted felons in any business capacity and that the ISCf preferred that you did not co-promote boxing mixed with MMA shows, no? You agreed to both of these requests and were granted the right to promote MMA in GA, correct? Then you picked a date to promote that was sandwiched within a two week period of one show and 1 week of another show, both in GA, not Alabama or Iowa, as some would have us believe...(the fact that these ludicrous statements have even been made show that certain people have a propensity to stretch the truth in hopes that it will further their agenda...). The ISCF had in place a variance rule of 30 days at that time so you were told that you needed to go through the proper channels to get that squared away. You made no effort to go through the proper channels in order to do so and instead opted to go on a public message board and whine that "you had been denied". The whole story, not just revisionist "facts".

" Imagine how many more out there have been stonewalled that don't know the proper channels to get their voice heard."

That's your key, right there. They were not denied, they were told to follow proper channels and chose not to.

"Basically, like other people have stated, if you're not "in the loop" then you'll never promote in GA."

Not true at all. Evolution Promotions who did a show in Dec, are "not in the loop" and as a matter of fact the heads of said promotional company had a falling out prior with an ISCF official. They were still granted a promoter's license because 1.) They went through the proper channels and 2.) The weren't involved with any convicted felons or other individuals that had been banned from promoting in GA for bad business practices.

"But they also do an excellent job of making sure only their board members are promoters."

Please show me who in Evolution Promotions is a board member of ISCF...

"Go to the iscf website and count the # of shows in GA in the past three years and you'll notice the # of shows has declined dramatically"

Let's see some stats to back up that claim. I beg to differ with you.

"Cam, why do you guys keep saying 'only two people were denied' when in fact that is completely false?"

Read above. You were not denied, just told you could not be involved in any business capacity with individuals that had been banned. Oblas was not denied he was simply told he needed to go through proper channels to get his requested date approved (which he did not do).

"Cam, could you please explain what the process is to apply for sanctioning in the state of GA through the ISCF?"

I have no idea as I am not involved in any capacity with the ISCF's protocols. I am simply a ref. I do know that the protocols are in amendment at the present time and I can guarantee that I will do whatever I can to help you put on a show here in GA.

"When does the government EVER do anything better than a private entity?"

Amen to that.

"Funny how you would use that argument in the ISCF's defense but you guys used it against me when I refused to quit being friends with Jamie."

Not quite the same. No one ever accused you of bad business practices or even insinuated that you may take part in them. What the ISCF was trying to do was to make sure that certain individuals were not involved in any way (official capacity) so that any opportunity to attack that angle would never arise, like I already pointed out happened at a FL event. It's just like the ISCF approval protocol. It was majorly flawed and was wide open to attack and criticism. As long as you were involved with certain individuals you and your promotiion would have been wide open to attack and criticism. They were simply trying to keep that door from ever being opened.

Contrary to what is being said, this post is full of ISCF bashing. It's painfully obvious that some have no other agenda other than an "anti-ISCF agenda" that is fueled by lies and half truths that keep being perpetuated in order to push this agenda.

This will be my last post here on this subject as I am basically tired of typing the same things over and over again on several different occasions in several different locations. It pains me that the people that have benefitted from the ISCF in GA the most are the first ones to turn around and attack it the way they have. Instead of being thankful that the ISCF has been here for them over the past 5 years and approaching any disagreemnents in a civil manner, coming to the ISCF and saying, "I think there are flaws, let's work together to fix them", they simply choose to sling mud and propogate agendas based on lies and half truths to turn everyone against the ISCF.

Bottom line- I am the first to admit that the ISCF approval process that was in place was majorly flawed and needed fixing. I agree that the variance rule needed shortening. I am not against other LEGIT sanctioning orgs coming into the state as long as they uphold the same standards that the ISCF has set as far as safety and efficiency. I do not want a governmental body regulating MMA in GA. I am in the middle here. Even though I am an ISCF official (ref) I have no part at all in their administrative businesses. I want everyone to work together for the betterment of our sport and I am not afraid to point point out flaws on both sides. The ISCF has a solid track record of efficiency and safety and to me that is what's most important and is why I stand behind them. Let's all work together to fix the other things so that we can all move forward.

Peace-
Cam

54

Well, bottom line is, let's watch my application work it's way through 'the proper channels'. I will be notating every step of the process on here and also for a GA newspaper.

55

" Sanctioning is important, but the ISCF and other bodies like ISKA, etc... have no legal authority."

Yes, the ISCF does have legal authority in certain states according to legislation.

"Why were these people denied ? Why is johnny walls being denied sanctioning. Please elaborate on the specifics. Is the issue that the iscf is creating a monopoly on who can promote and who cant ? This issue is confusing."

OK.... one last time... These people were not denied. They were given guidelines that they were not willing to follow so in essence, they made the choice themselves. In one instance it was following proper protocol to get a date approved, which was not followed. Oblas has been granted the right to promote so saying he's been denied is a blatant lie. He was simply told there were conflicts in 1 specific date he requested to promote a show and that he needed to follow proper protocol to get the date approved or either find another date altogether. There is still a variance rule but it has been shortened dramatically less than the previous 30 days.

Johnny was involved in an official business capacity with an individual that had been banned by the ISCF from participating in any business capacity involved with the sport of MMA in the state of GA due to past bad business practices in the state of GA related to an MMA event. Johnny was told that in order to be approved in GA that he must not be officially involved with said individual in any business capacity. Johnny refused to dissolve his business relationship with said individual for the event specified so in essence he made the choice himself.

Peace-
Cam

56

""If it's a professional pursuit, then usually it is treated as such and regulated by a governmental authority."

What governmental authority regulates pro football? Pro baseball? Pro hockey? Pro soccer? Pro golf? Pro auto racing? To my knowledge boxing is the only pro sport that is regulated by a governmental body. I know athletic commissions have jurisdiction over amateur sports but what involvement do they have in professional sports that are also regulated by NFL, Major League Baseball Commission, PGA, NASCAR,etc. These are not governmental bodies.""

That's a point not lost on me. :) Obviously, not all sports have legal requirements that pertain specifically to them. Almost all states do regulate the combat sports or unarmed combat, as they call it in Nevada, though, in some way or another, and mostly that is done by governmental bodies, not private entities like the ISCF.

I get it. Most people seem to think government is bad, just on general principle. Personally, I think that opinion is more prevalent among people who do not have any true understanding of government, but that's an issue for another day. Apparently, the GA Boxing Commission is bad. Would it still be bad to have the GA Boxing Commission regulate MMA if some ISCF people or other people who are knowledgeable about MMA were members of the Commission? To me, that would make more sense. It appears that y'all (as the people like to say down South here) were successful in keeping MMA out of the grasp of people who would have ruined it, but I'm still not convinced that your success in that regard means that it proves sanctioning by a private entity is the preferable model as it applies to other states.

57

If I continue to sell WEF DVD's then they will try and deny me again. I HOPE THAT HAPPENS!!

I own the video rights to the WEF shows, and they are trying to say that I can not do that and be allowed to promote. Steve Fossum told me himself that if I even have lunch with Jamie Levine then that alone is enough to deny sanctioning.

It's funny that you have info when it favors you, then "I am just an official" when you don't. You do not even know what me and Frank went through trying to get sanctioned. I have every email, every fax, etc. that was sent to Steve Fossum. Most were ignored and then when we would get a response they would say "Oh, but you haven't talked to such and such yet" or some other stonewalling excuse like that date is too close to another date. It's a big circle that turns into a black hole. They hope that you just give up so that they can say you 'abandoned' your application. I even wrote to them that as the sanctioning organization could they not suggest a good date for me to have the show? No, you have to pick one and then we'll tell you why you can't have that date.

Cam, I am going to call Steve Fossum and ask him if I can do an audio interview with him about this issue. If you talk to him, please tell him to call me. He obviously has my number when he wants me to do something for him. It's funny to how my relationship with Jamie was OK when I was working for you guys but not OK when I wanted to do an event. Listen, I watched Jamie's kids grow up, I go to their birthday parties, I am an extended part of his family. I am not ending a friendship because the ISCF tells me to. Yeah, I bitched at Jamie (and still do) about that fiasco in GA. But this is America and I can be friends with anyone I want. Steve Fossum says that I CAN NOT BE FRIENDS WITH JAMIE AND PROMOTE. DO NOT TELL ME THAT HE DID NOT SAY THAT TO ME! How can that be an issue for sanctioning? It isn't. They can get away with it because they are a monopoly. The ISCF knows that I can succesfully promote my own show in GA, but they choose to find any excuse, link or 'association' possible to not let that happen. I could not talk to Jamie for 10 years and they would still use that excuse to stonewall me.

Plus, let's be REALLY honest. If the WEF event was so horrible for the fighters, wouldn't that be on your organization? The ISCF was the organization that was supposed to insure that fighters got paid. Isn't that the real issue - that he made you guys look stupid?Obviously it was Jamie's responsibility, but the fighters look to the sanctioning body to make sure they will get paid. You guys didn't cover your ass and did not help those fighters. Frankiscool should not have needed to resorting to this forum to try and get his friends paid. That was your responsibilty. I even helped Jamie track down a couple people that he paid later, but I didn't see the ISCF helping those fighters at all. I helped raise money for them through video sales and I saw Jamie pay them. Where was the ISCF??

YOU GUYS HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT 'THE PROPER CHANNELS' IS STONEWALLING!!!!!!! YOU WILL SEE EVERYTHING ON HERE. WATCH WHAT HAPPENS WITH MY APPLICATION!

58

My last comment (hopefully):

Saying I've been approved as an ISCF promoter is great; but I've never been able to find a date that works or I'm just too dumb to go through the proper channels. It's kind of like having a girlfriend; but she won't ever let you touch her; but she will let you call her your girlfriend.

I'm not the best or brightest promoter in the world. But I have put on 14 shows in 2.5 years including an ESPN2 show and I have my 15th show this Friday night....but I just can't seem to follow the "proper channels" for putting on an ISCF show. Kind of like a maze where you can't find the way out...

Also, Lane Collyer has NEVER been involved with ANY of my past shows. How long can you use this as an excuse?

I'll say this is my last post; but it probably won't be. This is too fun.

59

" The sanctioning body should not have control over dates a promoter can promote."

I agree and I "THINK" the ISCF variance period has been dropped to 10 days prior and 1 week after...

"If I continue to sell WEF DVD's then they will try and deny me again."

I doubt that. I think as long as he is not involved in any official capacity with the event it won't matter, but then again, I am not the spokesperson for these issues.

"It's funny that you have info when it favors you, then "I am just an official" when you don't."

What are you talking about? What info am I supposed to be privy to as something other than a ref? You asked me about administrative protocol. You can look on the web page as well as I can. That's all the info I have about protocol is what's on the web page.

"DO NOT TELL ME THAT HE DID NOT SAY THAT TO ME! "

I have no idea what Fossum or anyone else said to you. I only know what you posted here.

"but I didn't see the ISCF helping those fighters at all."

The ISCF helped by insuring that it wouldn't happen again by banning him from being involved in any official capacity regarding MMA in the state.

I am finished with this. Like I stated, it's rather obvious what the agendas of some here are.

Good luck with your endeavors in the matter, Johnny.

Peace-
Cam

60

Johnny,

I am not calling you a criminal. However I am saying that Jaime Levine should not be able to be associated with MMA in Georgia. While, to my knowledge he is not a criminal, he has failed to pay fighters on several instances; hence his ban. The other person to be denied promotion is a felon and thus the reason for his denial. I personally would not be opposed to a felon promoting an event as long as they have served their debt to society and stayed out of trouble an amount of time like 10 years. People can change.

I do not appreciate your tone in your "watch what you say", I feel it was inappropriate and unwarranted.

I am in no way connected with the ISCF and I don't speak on their behalf, however I do believe they do a good job and are working to fix their shortcomings as an organization. I think a company willing to evolve is a good thing. If you disagree, so be it.

Tripp Owings