It's Men vs. Women at Army Combatives tournament

i was figuring the men vs women mma thing would be done in alabama or something. likely by the same guy who put kyle maynard in a cage fight.

surprisingly, it was the US army. leading the way in equality.

Hansumboy - 
Kirik - 
Hansumboy - lol arent army dudes supposed to be tough? That 130 pound weakling needs to turn in his mancard. Getting beaten by a chick with beginners level technique? I guess I am what they would call a "liberal pussy" but I would beat down most of those punks without breaking a sweat.

I guess the only times they are "tough" is when they are bombing children with remote controlled missiles or humiliating defenseless prisoners!


 Watch your mouth please when talking about people who volunteer to put themselves in harm's way in defense of the country.



The soldiers that fought for the allies in WW2 were heroes defending their countries. Modern day soldiers are tools used by politicians and big corporations to keep the wheels of the profitable war machine turning. How is invading Iraq "defending" the US? Have you forgotten the fact that they had now weapons of mass destruction there?



Germany never attacked America...Germany's ally did. How is smashing Germany "defending" America?

Just like Iraq never attacked us directly, but instead sheltered/supported people who did. Guess you undid your own argument.

I suggest you check out the book "With Good Reason: An Introduction to Logical Fallacies." It will help strengthen your trolling considerably.

The Cooler - 
Hansumboy - 
Kirik - 
Hansumboy - lol arent army dudes supposed to be tough? That 130 pound weakling needs to turn in his mancard. Getting beaten by a chick with beginners level technique? I guess I am what they would call a "liberal pussy" but I would beat down most of those punks without breaking a sweat.

I guess the only times they are "tough" is when they are bombing children with remote controlled missiles or humiliating defenseless prisoners!


 Watch your mouth please when talking about people who volunteer to put themselves in harm's way in defense of the country.



The soldiers that fought for the allies in WW2 were heroes defending their countries. Modern day soldiers are tools used by politicians and big corporations to keep the wheels of the profitable war machine turning. How is invading Iraq "defending" the US? Have you forgotten the fact that they had now weapons of mass destruction there?



Germany never attacked America...Germany's ally did. How is smashing Germany "defending" America?

Just like Iraq never attacked us directly, but instead sheltered/supported people who did. Guess you undid your own argument.

I suggest you check out the book "With Good Reason: An Introduction to Logical Fallacies." It will help strengthen your trolling considerably.



I am aware of this, but the allies in general were fighting against a true threat. If Hitler had conquered Europe he wouldnt have quit there, America would have been next. And america was of course attacked by Japan, an ally of Germany.

The true heroes of WW2 were the Soviet soldiers though. They went through more shit than anyone.

This has nothing to do with the thread though so I´ll stop now.

Lol! This is terrible. Defending a tournament that involves male soldiers causing female soldiers to be carried out on stretchers? I would also forfeit my match and have 0 respect for anyone who can hurt a woman in this manner, soldier or not. Phone Post

Editing problem

Thacommish - i for one would refuse to beat a woman to the point where shed need a stretcher to leave, thats just fucking uncalled for.



Agree, UNLESS she's my girlfriend or wife, in which case fair game

Wish I was in the army I think I might be able to whoop a few of them girls with a fake glove touch Phone Post

The Cooler - 
Hansumboy - 
Kirik - 
Hansumboy - lol arent army dudes supposed to be tough? That 130 pound weakling needs to turn in his mancard. Getting beaten by a chick with beginners level technique? I guess I am what they would call a "liberal pussy" but I would beat down most of those punks without breaking a sweat.

I guess the only times they are "tough" is when they are bombing children with remote controlled missiles or humiliating defenseless prisoners!


 Watch your mouth please when talking about people who volunteer to put themselves in harm's way in defense of the country.



The soldiers that fought for the allies in WW2 were heroes defending their countries. Modern day soldiers are tools used by politicians and big corporations to keep the wheels of the profitable war machine turning. How is invading Iraq "defending" the US? Have you forgotten the fact that they had now weapons of mass destruction there?



Germany never attacked America...Germany's ally did. How is smashing Germany "defending" America?

Just like Iraq never attacked us directly, but instead sheltered/supported people who did. Guess you undid your own argument.

I suggest you check out the book "With Good Reason: An Introduction to Logical Fallacies." It will help strengthen your trolling considerably.




It's been proven Iraq never had any connections to Al Qaeda. Let's be real here Iraq was just another victim of the empire. Saddam was an Allie and the U.S. couldn't care less what he did even when he slaughtered the Kurdish people using U.S. manufactured weapons. Right when he started to nationalize his resources the U.S. invaded overthrew him set up a puppet government and set up military bases all while Corporations were robbing oil and defense contractors were making billions.

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." - Henry Kissinger

Hansumboy - 
The Cooler - 
Hansumboy - 
Kirik - 
Hansumboy - lol arent army dudes supposed to be tough? That 130 pound weakling needs to turn in his mancard. Getting beaten by a chick with beginners level technique? I guess I am what they would call a "liberal pussy" but I would beat down most of those punks without breaking a sweat.

I guess the only times they are "tough" is when they are bombing children with remote controlled missiles or humiliating defenseless prisoners!


 Watch your mouth please when talking about people who volunteer to put themselves in harm's way in defense of the country.



The soldiers that fought for the allies in WW2 were heroes defending their countries. Modern day soldiers are tools used by politicians and big corporations to keep the wheels of the profitable war machine turning. How is invading Iraq "defending" the US? Have you forgotten the fact that they had now weapons of mass destruction there?



Germany never attacked America...Germany's ally did. How is smashing Germany "defending" America?

Just like Iraq never attacked us directly, but instead sheltered/supported people who did. Guess you undid your own argument.

I suggest you check out the book "With Good Reason: An Introduction to Logical Fallacies." It will help strengthen your trolling considerably.



I am aware of this, but the allies in general were fighting against a true threat. If Hitler had conquered Europe he wouldnt have quit there, America would have been next. And america was of course attacked by Japan, an ally of Germany.

The true heroes of WW2 were the Soviet soldiers though. They went through more shit than anyone.
The thought that anyone group were the "true heroes" of WW2 is not only a completely ignorant statement to make, but it's also completely asenine.  When you're done maligning the men and women that allow you to have the presonal freedoms that give you time to post on this thread, I can gladly recommend a myriad on books on how many different groups influenced WW2, my specialty.

I am out of this thread since I am still confused to how celebrating women that are empowered and skilled enough to compete with men evolves into a berating of our beloved soldiers.  (And thank you Kirik).
 

Hansumboy -
The soldiers that fought for the allies in WW2 were heroes defending their countries. Modern day soldiers are tools used by politicians and big corporations to keep the wheels of the profitable war machine turning. How is invading Iraq "defending" the US? Have you forgotten the fact that they had now weapons of mass destruction there?



The only tool here is you.

You are fighting a losing battle here talking like that. Whether or not politicians are pulling the strings or not doesn't change the fact that these people are offering up life and limb to protect you and me.

the thread is about Army tourneys, lets stick to it, I am curious to see peoples aspect of the existing program.

 whoa whoa whoa back the train up here, did someone say that the army is starting to stand up infantry units with women in them!??!?!

FRAZTV - "you can't choose the skill level or sex of who you engage with on the battlefield, there are no separate divisions for women"

But you can choose the weight of the opponent on the battlefield?


 woman should not be on the battlefield, so there should be no reason for them to engage a male enemy, thus not mattering what size they are or skill level they have

"Although there are weight divisions, because you can't choose the skill level or sex of who you engage with on the battlefield, there are no separate divisions for women, and no separate skill levels."

What a strange statement.

Can you somehow choose the weight of the person you fight to the death on the battlefield?

If we're going to pretend women can fist-fight men on even ground, certainly men can fist-fight larger men than themselves?

"One woman made it to the finals. But at least three female fighters were carried out on stretchers."

Well thats pathetic and morally disgusting. What possible purpose does that serve? Like letting a grown man kick the shit out of a 12 year old boy.

"To help balance the odds, they are allowed to outweigh men in the same class by 10 pounds."

Oh. So theyre equal to guys and can compete against them. But only if we stack the odds more in their favor. What a bizzare message.

"A few hours later, Chesser was in the stands, glowering. "We don't have instant adrenaline like males do," she said."

................

wait, is she claiming there are actual, immutable differences between men and women?

I though gender was "just a social construct"?

And the only woman to make it to the finals, got there via a DQ?

Whats the story here, really?

Snapple - 
jonnierockets20 - the thread is about Army tourneys, lets stick to it, I am curious to see peoples aspect of the existing program.


 1. Current program is more trained and better implemented then past programs.   One  is focused on competitive outlet which allows for training in aliveness.
2. Nothing is peferfect.  Yes their are those instructors that abuse the clinch drill, or think they are tough for finishing 5 weeks of official training which is what is required for Basic Combatives Intructor (Formely Level 3)
3.  They made changes to the program focusing more on going to projectile weapons range, added in some basic striking and clicn work for Basic Combatives (Formely Level 1)  
 4.   The Army tournaments are good for helping to motivate Soldiers to train in the program.  Just because something is "required" doesn't mean Soldiers still do it.  It's a good component to have for motivation for Soldiers and Unit commadners who want to have their unit's do it. 





Good post Jason,

I understand motivation, but those who compete in the tourneys are only a small number compared to the Soldiers that receive the training. Now, I don't discredit the clinch drill and inadequate Instructors for all of those non-participants but some of the Soldiers first experience with combatives is through those Instructors.

I've seen many Soldiers suffer injuries because of poor instructors, one had his jaw broken and then told to get up and clinch. The rest of the class were a little nervous after that as i was trying to re-build their confidence by telling them different techniques to achieve the clinch.

I studied BJJ years before my level one cert so I had an idea of a properly structured session.

Females vs Males because you cannot predict the enemy on the battlefield is pretty far fetched to me. As previously stated, timed rounds, progressive tournaments, and limited striking all indicates safety measures, so it baffles me how we still have men vs women.

I heard the excuse of not enough females, but I figure just expand the weight classes, yes some will be at a disadvantage but not worse than fighting a man for most women.

I am glad to hear that the program is evolving but I think it needs to cover these safety precautions before something serious happens. You know the Army, something only gets done when a serious incident is reported.

You sound very knowledgeable of the MACP and i tip my hats off to you for involvement, especially recognizing the lackluster instructors, but I hope maybe this thread becomes visible in the eyes of those who can make the changes. I don't think this gets talked about enough. Male vs Female should never be in comabtives.

Hansumboy - lol arent army dudes supposed to be tough? That 130 pound weakling needs to turn in his mancard. Getting beaten by a chick with beginners level technique? I guess I am what they would call a "liberal pussy" but I would beat down most of those punks without breaking a sweat. I guess the only times they are "tough" is when they are bombing children with remote controlled missiles or humiliating defenseless prisoners!
i find that people who say "oh i can take so and so no problem" say it for attention. and why are you making generalizations about soldiers based on accidents or other incidents that haven't happened with the majority of soldiers. it's just like how people talk shit about cops and the bad things that happen but never talk about the daily things they do to help people in thier neighborhoods. so easy for everyone to talk shit it seems...

Helwig the biological theory of differences between men and women has never been validated by the sciences. Men and women have differing biology but the social reality has nothing to do with genetically inherited genitalia.

The army example here is poor because the manner in which people are placed against each other is flawed from the beginning. A rank newb against a seasoned fighter is going to produce injuries. Was it stated that the three women on stretchers and the vast majority with more severe injuries than men had little, average, or high amounts of fighting experience?

Plenty of men get sent to the hospital in fighting and no one is bitching about how unacceptable this is - when the combatants are not a newb and a semi-pro.

Women have proven to be competitive in sports. Jang Mi-ran had a 186kg C&J at the 2008 olympics.

http://www.chidlovski.net/liftup/l_worldResult.asp?wname=Super%20Heavyweight&wyear=1953

Notice that this female lifter from Korea smashed Doug Hepburn's 1954 90kg+ class record. This is only 25kg less than the 2008 lift in the Men's 85kg category as performed by Lu Yong from China.

We have no basis to assume that when men and women compete together within the same weight classes that men have an absolute advantage except for prejudices against female athletics that have been around since the beginning of western civilization. Women's basketball courts used to be smaller because it was believed that women could not 'run'. Well we know that idea was shit, so give women a chance to prove they can fight too if they want to fight with men.

One made it to the final did she not?

She made it to the finals by DQ.
I could see a juiced to the gills "female" weightlifter doing well compared to natural men from a long time ago. Phone Post

Leghound - 
Thacommish - i for one would refuse to beat a woman to the point where shed need a stretcher to leave, thats just fucking uncalled for.



Agree, UNLESS she's my girlfriend or wife, in which case fair game



yeah they dont get off the hook all that easy