A while back there was a thread proposing some rules to enable BJJ and Judo (and Sombo too?) players to compete in a relatively non-biased manner.
Well locally (Melboune, Victoria, Australia) we've been working on the same and are currently in the process of getting a competition underway... we've still got a few matters to resolve (mainly around insurance which is a hot topic in Oz at present, but also venues/mats etc) but given the broad support to date (from both BJJ and Judo players) things are looking promising.
Feel free to browse the site www.vicgrapple.com and come back to me with any ideas/comments etc you might have.
In addition to a concise version of the proposed rules (yet to be published) the site also illustates how the scoring works from a Team vs. Team prespective and illustrates a variety of core rule concepts in via a Bout illustration.
Kind regards,
Jason
www.vicgrapple.com
PS - sorry about the pop-ups, that's what you get for a free site!
It's already been done:
http://www.wcja.com/
Mike
Mike,
Thanks for the reference - certainly similar in concept but a number of significant differences. Not to say one approach is better than the other.
Some differences include:
We've kept point awards for holds limited to Knee-Ride, Mount and Back-Mount, worth 2,3 and 4 points respectively.
Throws are worth 2 points and only awarded when they result in a "Dominant Position" which has been comprehensively defined.
There is an "Escalation of Attack" rule making 'point harvesting' (e.g., Mount to Knee-Ride then back again) difficult: basically additional points are only awarded for increasing your control.
Our stalling rules use a concept called "Seizing the Initative": basically if you're dominating the fight (the best indicator is you've just been awarded points) then you need to progress it else be subjected to penalties before your opponent.
Lastly, how you win relative to your opponent is worth different points to your Team. Subs are top of the list and lower down are tech superiority, point superiority, points and ties... all are worth different Team Points to both the winning and losing Team.
I like those rules a lot actually. I'd say even if judo people don't take to it well, they're a lot better than standard bjj rules... even for straight bjj competition.
I like how guard passing points have been taken out... then getting a good position the reward for passing the guard, not the passing itself.
I also like only scoring takedowns/throws that land you in a dominant position. That eliminates a lot of the grey area as to who should be awarding points. Only something of actualy merit is awarded points.
I was wondering though, what's your reasoning for points for knee-riding? Same as mount? If you could control them with a knee ride, you could be hitting them easily too?
"some rules to enable BJJ and Judo (and Sombo too?) players to compete in a relatively non-biased manner."
How About
MMA
Interesting point you made re the rules being a good alternative to 'standard' BJJ competition... I actually agree. IMHO current BJJ rules are too vague and arguably don't align risk/reward in a manner that ultimately encourages a submission-orientated game.
Mind you the recent changes to the CBJJ rules are a step in the right direction, however like you said, hanging onto things like passing and sweeping rather than rewarding less hazy 'outcomes' makes implementing the same difficult.
"I was wondering though, what's your reasoning for points for knee-riding? Same as mount? If you could control them with a knee ride, you could be hitting them easily too?"
When putting the rules together the focus wasn't so much trying to replicate/simulate "The Street" rather create a workable and enjoyable set of rules that rewards a skillful and proactive game.
Knee-Ride is an interesting technique in any event. Before starting BJJ I rarely encountered it and it definately wasn't something you'd normally see in Judo competition. It was included for a vareity of reasons including:
The fact that Knee-Ride is one of the core BJJ techniques - without recognising it a lot of BJJ players would feel (even more?) disadvantaged; and
Knee-Ride is a great transition position (rather than a hold to death position) so rewarding it encourages active play; and
When included within the context of the Escalation of Attack rule, it makes sense too: Control the guy on the throw (2pts), move to Knee-Ride (2pts), move to Mount (3pts) then if you're able to secure Back-Mount (4pts) you'd have scored (more than) enough points to win by Technical Superiority - failure to get a Knee-Ride would see you one point shy and hunting a submission. Including the Knee-Ride ultimately rewards the player able to convert 'useful' throws into control/dominance on the ground.