Whats up
I train Vale Tudo and BJJ.
I dont train Judo but wanted to say after watching a tape of Mike Swain about Judo i have to say that Judo is really beautiful and i think very usefull on the streets as well..
I saw some Kosen Judo tape few days agoo and it had many techniques on the ground.
Is it a big difference between Kosen Judo and ordinary Judo.
TTT
What do you define ordinary Judo as?
As i said i dont know anything about Judo but to me ordinary Judo would be not focusing that much on the ground..or am i wrong?
youd be both, right and wrong.
a lot of dojos have a 60-40 (or close to it) focus on standing and newaza. in judo what happens on your feet tends to win most matches, something like 75% i think.
there are dojos in the US, and other countries, where newaza is hardly 30% of what they do. it is all going to depend on the coach.
-resnick
Kosen Judo was really a special set of rules for Judo competition used by a select group of schools (colleges and associated prep schools) in Japan beginning in the early 20th century. Basically, they focused their training on ground work, and the Kosen rules allowed essentially unlimited groundwork, and a relaxation of rules on how you could enter groundwork from standing.
In the early days of Judo competitions, and until about 20 years ago, the rules basically required that you do a throw to enter groundwork, or did a counter. Kosen rules allowed pulling guard.
The Kosen focus on groundwork was because the colleges got raw recruits who did not know much Judo or none at all. It was easier to train them in groundwork than throwing. All the matches were team matches, so the weaker players would play for a draw and then in the last matches the captains (higher level guys) would fight it out for the win.
"Kosen" Judo is Kodokan Judo-they got their rank from the Kodokan.
Ben R.
Ben, great post!
Don, As far as the newaza in judo and bjj. I train in both. I've had the opportunity to train at three different clubs and travel with work so I've trained at quite a few and I would say that newaza is a standard part of training and most times I would guess we train 40% of the time on newaza. It really depends on the club. Most clubs realize that now, they have to step up the ground work due to the caliber of competion.....the groundwork is just getting better.
IMO the major difference, other than the techniques allowed (shoulder locks, knee bars...etc.) is the fact that in bjj we spend alot of time working on the transition and smooth execution of the ground technique. In judo, I notice that we just do the technique, we may disect it into it's component parts, but we don't work on the smooth execution or transition from one position to another....or one sub to another. Have the battle is knowing how to get there.
I started judo before bjj and say that bjj has only complemented my judo, but judo has also benefitted my bjj. When I started bjj I did have somewhat of a good understanding of basic groundwork and so I could sub more than 50% of the blue belts. (most of the time I could resist and escape their attempts and counter)
I am in no way great at judo or bjj....but, in judo, I can usually pull off a submission when ever we work newaza and then...it seems like the bjj guys just can't seem to take me down when we start standing....and I can get a pretty clean throw.
My opinion is that they are very complementary of each other, essential to a complete system, and it would be great for all to train in both.
peace,
jt
Last year we had a Japanese uni team touring around Australia, which included a number of players majoring (?) in K-Judo.
Playing with them during newaza I found their game stronger than their standard Judo team mates, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that it was anything exceptional, different etc... I suggest any difference would be attributed to the amount of time invested in training ne vs. tachi waza.
Ok guys
Thanks for clearing things up.
Supermariosak, the oldest 7 universities in Japan, whichever those are. I've never seen the names. They were called "The Seven Sisters".
My reference for all this is K. Kashiwazaki's book "Osaekomi" from Ippon Books.
Ben R.
i think Tenri was one of the 7... it would be something to look up at the kodokan hall of fame.