Josh wrote a lot. I had to go, and I'm just now getting back to this thread. Believe it or not, I really think about this stuff while I'm going through my day. That's no guarantee that what I write makes any sense, though!
"ben. we dont give any scholarships at all here. not a one. zip, zero, ziltch. the reason we dont have 100 people on the mat is 2 fold.. 1) people from out east are tentative to send their kids to CA for college and 2) local coaches of HS kids just dont give their kids any clue that there is someplace they can go for college that will take them to the next level.
Josh, I knew that SJSU does not give out any Judo scholarships. What you guys have going for you (why you are successful, 100 on mat or not) is in my opinion:
- a LONG history of Judo in a hotbed (California) of Judo activity.
- Long history means lots of alumni for support (money, coaching, recruiting, etc.).
- A long history of winning (and a rep to go with it)
- A great coaching staff (because of 2)
- SJSU is in a cool location, with lots of stuff to do, particularly night life/partying, with a very good public transportation system. It's a good school, too for academic stuff.
Because of that unique combination of circustances and hard work, SJSU has been succesful.
For those reasons, I don't think SJSU is exactly a model to follow, particularly in the early stages of the development of 3 or 4 collegiate programs as you have suggested we need. Thus my emphasis on money, scholarships in particular. To build something from scratch quickly, money is going to be a key ingredient.
Josh wrote:"i blame local coaches. they are arrogant, self-centered and often small minded. they care so much about the kids and train them well and do all this, but then the kids turn 18 and what do they do? "well, you didnt make the Jr. World Team. Have fun in college where-ever you go." "
I've seen what you are talking about for sure. Another factor I'm sure is old rivalries or past history. Many coaches simply may not LIKE SJSU Judo for some reason or the other, so don't want to send kids there, even though the kids would benefit. Of course that is self centered and stupid thing to do. I've heard a lot of people say that they would not send their kid to the OTC, for example.
"instead they should be saying "well, you missed that team, but there isnt any reason to think that you cant go to SJSU and make the world team in a few years. go give it your best shot."
I agree. However, like I said above, there may be other reasons they don't say that.
"local coaches are as much a problem with USA Judo as they are a benefit to it. they bitch and complain about why we dont have better results, yet what in the hell do most of them do with their talented kids????"
I'm not sure. It may also have more to do with their parents. If they are paying the bills, then they have a big say in what the kid does and where she goes.
"wanna know why some of the other college programs havent been able to recruit much? its pretty simple. nobody thinks that their coaches are able to take them to the point of making the olympic team. and, to a point they are right."
I'm not sure everybody who would go to a college program for Judo would aspire to the Olympics, Josh. Of course, not many college programs have that capability, in fact, I'd say SJSU is the only one that really exists at this point in time in the USA. It's kind of a chicken and egg problem. You need the talented HS kids in the program to succeed, but if you haven't succeeded yet (in producing lots of winners), nobody wants to go to your program, scholarships or not.
The fact of the matter is, there is a huge vaccume out there, and SJSU is really the only program that has anything going. And you guys aren't exactly totally overfilled with recruits (you addressed that above), despite being in a Judo rich area, with lots of activily involved highly talented and dedicated alumni.
Maybe the USA can't support 3 or 4 big college Judo programs?
"look at who made it to the olympic trials. how many of them came from college programs outside of SJSU? none at 60kg, none at 48kg, none at 66kg, none at 52kg, and all the way up the ladder."
Sure,I addressed that above. You guys don't have much competition at this point in time for sure. SJSU is an anomoly in my opinion in American Judo, though.
"now, im not saying that these other programs arent good things and good programs and run by people who really do know judo (becuase i know that they are run by people who know good judo).
"but, there is a problem here that isnt being addressed properly. if you want to have a serious college program that can produce people capable of making the Olympic Trials or competing overseas or winning the nationals then you have to have a coach who has the ability to recruit top HS players and convince them that s/he can take them to that level."
YOu need a coach, you need money (scholarships, travel money, facilities, coaching staff) not just ONE coach. One guy/gal can't do all of that. Hell, with enough money you could HIRE competent coaches from overseas who have degrees in Judo, were good competitors, plus somebody with a degree in sports admin to run the whole thing.
"you have to have a program that trains like NCAA football and basketball train and expects the best possible results or you can be damn sure the coach wont be a coach much longer."
But that's not how you do it a SJSU, is it? How much are the coaches being paid, if at all? It's not anybody's primary living, is it? You guys have got the bucks, but not THAT much.
"we need people to stop all the recreational college judo clubs and stat places where the best kids can go to get better without having to teach a beginner how to do seionage. funny thing is, it honestly isnt that hard to do, but you know that the people who run these clubs arent willing to take the criticism and change a damn thing."
We don't have to stop all the recreational/minor competition level clubs, just pick some key locations to start/focus on the type of training you are talking about. I don't think the US can support many top level college programs now.
They may want to change, but don't have the means. I'm not sure you really understand how difficult it is to run a high level program, or get one started at a university without massive amounts of outside capital. In fact, it's tough to run a low level program. I know, as I have been involved in two, one as the guy running the program, the other as an assistant.
One route to go is to use money to endow a chair in a PE department for Judo/Budo, similar to what they do in Japan. Of course, that takes money and a group of dedicated people willing to make a run at the university to get things started.
Nice discussion, Josh!
Ben R.