judo mcdojo?

Underground Train Judo Ground
21

"ben. we dont give any scholarships at all here. not a one. zip, zero, ziltch. the reason we dont have 100 people on the mat is 2 fold.. 1) people from out east are tentative to send their kids to CA for college and 2) local coaches of HS kids just dont give their kids any clue that there is someplace they can go for college that will take them to the next level. "

And so, Josh, SJSU doesn't have any source of money to support the team for travel, etc.?

Without that source of money, where would you be now?

And I ask that with all due respect.

Gotta go, I'll get to the rest later.

Ben

22

There should be more competitive judo programs at the collegiate level. Why it has not been a priority for the last 20 years is incredulous to me.

Cumberland and SJSU are the only two real choices. Not enough, but a start. Here's a question.

Why haven't the JF,JA and JI made a real push to get kids in the grassroots programs to one of those programs? East of the Mississipi, you push them to Cumberland. West of it, you push them to SJSU. I'm not talking about 100 kids a year, but we can't figure out how to send 15-20 kids a year to each of these programs? That's less than one student per state. I think that's bullshit. Don't tell me that every state doesn't have at least one kid who could go alot further if they were able to transistion from their local club to an elite college program.

When I go to tournaments, everybody says "Geez, its just so tough to keep these kids after they turn 16. I keep losing them.". While I'm sympathetic, I'm really thinking "No shit. What the fuck are we gonna do for these kids after they get out of high school?"

Everyone who has involvement with a grassroots program should be thinking about this problem. Every club has at least one young kid who walks in their door who trains intensely, competes actively, has all the potential in the world to become an elite athlete if given the opportunity. When they are forced to make an educational choice, we tell them; "Hey, thanks for representing our club at all these tournaments and paying your dues all these years, helping out and being an inspiration to all the younger kids. Good luck in the future"

The judo community deserves a collective "FUCK YOU" from every one of those kids and families that were left on their own to figure out how to get their kids to the next level in their judo careers while they pursued their education. What the hell is the point of having grassroots programs for kids if not to push them to the next level? Its almost pointless in my opinion. At the national level, it absolutely makes no sense at all.

SJSU and Cumberland aren't the educational answers for all those kids. But I'm damn sure it is for some of them. Why not figure out a way to make it easier for some of those kids to get there? After we figure that out, lets figure out how to get more college programs going, so there are more opportunities for kids to pursue their education and their competitive judo careers.

Don't tell me there is no money. I know for a FACT, that one club has a kid that has the dream of attending one of those programs when they graduate high school. Spoke with the sensei of that kid a couple of weeks ago. I guarantee you that the kid will have the opportunity and assistance from that club when the time comes. Why? Because the club is planning a couple years ahead of time, if that student stays committed to training and competing and keeps progressing. They are figuring out how to get the money to help. That's just one club. Don't tell that the other 700 plus clubs can't figure it out either. Its bullshit.

23

I will tell you this. I am in my mid twenties and another guy who started at about the same time as me who is in his late 30's who was a wrestler in highschool. Eery session we are like man I wish I new what this was when I was 16.

I started on a whim really I didn't have any idea what Judo even was. I graduated college. I started working and I was bored. Luckily I stumbled on to it.

24

RexKwonDo: Well I'm pretty sure it is the only judo club in the area and the main instructor is an extremely skilled judoka. It just seems at this point in time he doesn't have the best set up for running the class.

The other night was much better. It started off with the warmup and some exercises. Then we did some technique and drilled that technique. Then we did newaza randori for the rest of the class. We would sparr for 3 to 4 minutes and then switch partners. That is the way I like to have a class run. I hope they do this in other classes with stand up sparring as well.

If every class went like the other night I would be a happy person.

25

ben.. its called fund-raisers and alumni who are generous enough to donate. sure, we have a few more decades worth of alumni than the programs at ISU or Lafayette, etc... but that doesnt mean it isnt possible for the other places.

if the people who graduate from the programs dont come back to contribute financially then what the hell good was having them in the program to begin with? i mean, they most likely got a lot out of it, but what are they doing to give back to it? SJSU alumni recognize this and a good portion of them give back. sure, we could always use more capital to do things with, but we always manage to have enough for the basics i think.

the bottom line is that JG is 100% right. what the hell good are these grassroots programs if they dont even care, or try, or really, really push their athletes to continue on with judo after HS??? its just stupid. there is no other way to put it.. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.

lets look at HS kids real quick. what do they do when they graduate? go away to college somewhere becuase they have outgrown the place they are in life and need somewhere else to go to find that next level in life. it is no different with sports. i mean, what kid actually wants to be ted bundy and say "yea, in HS i was great" all the while knowing that s/he blew the opportunity to be even better.

i cant tell you how many times ive run into people who quit just at 16-18. every single one of them says to me "i didnt know where to go. my club was just a bunch of kids, so i quit. i wish i had stayed in it becuase i use to give so-and-so a hard time in tournaments and i just heard he took 3rd at the nationals."

well, hello!!! whose damn fault is it??? somebody has to take responsibility for what happened to that kid. somebody failed to be his guidance counselor! who it is doesnt really matter i guess-- but i tend to place blame on the home dojo's first and foremost.

26

i mean, what kid actually wants to be ted bundy and say "yea, in HS i was great" all the while knowing that s/he blew the opportunity to be even better.

Josh,
I think you mean Al Bundy rather than Ted. He did score four touchdowns in one game for Polk High after all.

27

Josh wrote a lot. I had to go, and I'm just now getting back to this thread. Believe it or not, I really think about this stuff while I'm going through my day. That's no guarantee that what I write makes any sense, though!

"ben. we dont give any scholarships at all here. not a one. zip, zero, ziltch. the reason we dont have 100 people on the mat is 2 fold.. 1) people from out east are tentative to send their kids to CA for college and 2) local coaches of HS kids just dont give their kids any clue that there is someplace they can go for college that will take them to the next level.

Josh, I knew that SJSU does not give out any Judo scholarships. What you guys have going for you (why you are successful, 100 on mat or not) is in my opinion:

  1. a LONG history of Judo in a hotbed (California) of Judo activity.
  2. Long history means lots of alumni for support (money, coaching, recruiting, etc.).
  3. A long history of winning (and a rep to go with it)
  4. A great coaching staff (because of 2)
  5. SJSU is in a cool location, with lots of stuff to do, particularly night life/partying, with a very good public transportation system. It's a good school, too for academic stuff.

Because of that unique combination of circustances and hard work, SJSU has been succesful.

For those reasons, I don't think SJSU is exactly a model to follow, particularly in the early stages of the development of 3 or 4 collegiate programs as you have suggested we need. Thus my emphasis on money, scholarships in particular. To build something from scratch quickly, money is going to be a key ingredient.

Josh wrote:"i blame local coaches. they are arrogant, self-centered and often small minded. they care so much about the kids and train them well and do all this, but then the kids turn 18 and what do they do? "well, you didnt make the Jr. World Team. Have fun in college where-ever you go." "

I've seen what you are talking about for sure. Another factor I'm sure is old rivalries or past history. Many coaches simply may not LIKE SJSU Judo for some reason or the other, so don't want to send kids there, even though the kids would benefit. Of course that is self centered and stupid thing to do. I've heard a lot of people say that they would not send their kid to the OTC, for example.

"instead they should be saying "well, you missed that team, but there isnt any reason to think that you cant go to SJSU and make the world team in a few years. go give it your best shot."

I agree. However, like I said above, there may be other reasons they don't say that.

"local coaches are as much a problem with USA Judo as they are a benefit to it. they bitch and complain about why we dont have better results, yet what in the hell do most of them do with their talented kids????"

I'm not sure. It may also have more to do with their parents. If they are paying the bills, then they have a big say in what the kid does and where she goes.

"wanna know why some of the other college programs havent been able to recruit much? its pretty simple. nobody thinks that their coaches are able to take them to the point of making the olympic team. and, to a point they are right."

I'm not sure everybody who would go to a college program for Judo would aspire to the Olympics, Josh. Of course, not many college programs have that capability, in fact, I'd say SJSU is the only one that really exists at this point in time in the USA. It's kind of a chicken and egg problem. You need the talented HS kids in the program to succeed, but if you haven't succeeded yet (in producing lots of winners), nobody wants to go to your program, scholarships or not.

The fact of the matter is, there is a huge vaccume out there, and SJSU is really the only program that has anything going. And you guys aren't exactly totally overfilled with recruits (you addressed that above), despite being in a Judo rich area, with lots of activily involved highly talented and dedicated alumni.

Maybe the USA can't support 3 or 4 big college Judo programs?

"look at who made it to the olympic trials. how many of them came from college programs outside of SJSU? none at 60kg, none at 48kg, none at 66kg, none at 52kg, and all the way up the ladder."

Sure,I addressed that above. You guys don't have much competition at this point in time for sure. SJSU is an anomoly in my opinion in American Judo, though.

"now, im not saying that these other programs arent good things and good programs and run by people who really do know judo (becuase i know that they are run by people who know good judo).

"but, there is a problem here that isnt being addressed properly. if you want to have a serious college program that can produce people capable of making the Olympic Trials or competing overseas or winning the nationals then you have to have a coach who has the ability to recruit top HS players and convince them that s/he can take them to that level."

YOu need a coach, you need money (scholarships, travel money, facilities, coaching staff) not just ONE coach. One guy/gal can't do all of that. Hell, with enough money you could HIRE competent coaches from overseas who have degrees in Judo, were good competitors, plus somebody with a degree in sports admin to run the whole thing.

"you have to have a program that trains like NCAA football and basketball train and expects the best possible results or you can be damn sure the coach wont be a coach much longer."

But that's not how you do it a SJSU, is it? How much are the coaches being paid, if at all? It's not anybody's primary living, is it? You guys have got the bucks, but not THAT much.

"we need people to stop all the recreational college judo clubs and stat places where the best kids can go to get better without having to teach a beginner how to do seionage. funny thing is, it honestly isnt that hard to do, but you know that the people who run these clubs arent willing to take the criticism and change a damn thing."

We don't have to stop all the recreational/minor competition level clubs, just pick some key locations to start/focus on the type of training you are talking about. I don't think the US can support many top level college programs now.

They may want to change, but don't have the means. I'm not sure you really understand how difficult it is to run a high level program, or get one started at a university without massive amounts of outside capital. In fact, it's tough to run a low level program. I know, as I have been involved in two, one as the guy running the program, the other as an assistant.

One route to go is to use money to endow a chair in a PE department for Judo/Budo, similar to what they do in Japan. Of course, that takes money and a group of dedicated people willing to make a run at the university to get things started.

Nice discussion, Josh!

Ben R.

28

Judoguy wrote a lot! Thanks!

"There should be more competitive judo programs at the collegiate level. Why it has not been a priority for the last 20 years is incredulous to me.
Cumberland and SJSU are the only two real choices. Not enough, but a start. Here's a question."

Considering the apparent aimlessness of most of the Jx in most aspects of Judo over the past decades, other than attacking each other, it's not surprising, but still incredulous to me too!

"Why haven't the JF,JA and JI made a real push to get kids in the grassroots programs to one of those programs? "

Lack of vision, leadership, or a coherent plan?

"East of the Mississipi, you push them to Cumberland. West of it, you push them to SJSU. I'm not talking about 100 kids a year, but we can't figure out how to send 15-20 kids a year to each of these programs?"

Apparently not. Maybe it has to do with Judo politics, like I suggested in my reply to Josh's post above.

"That's less than one student per state. I think that's bullshit. Don't tell me that every state doesn't have at least one kid who could go alot further if they were able to transistion from their local club to an elite college program."

It may not be a big priority for them (the kids) or for their parents either. In my entire time in New Orleans, I met TWO count'em TWO sets of parents who were looking for elite level programs for their kids to attend after HS. One was a girl still in GRADE SCHOOL. I told them, SJSU or Cumberland, although at the time Cumberland wasn't active. So that left SJSU.

"When I go to tournaments, everybody says "Geez, its just so tough to keep these kids after they turn 16. I keep losing them.". While I'm sympathetic, I'm really thinking "No shit. What the fuck are we gonna do for these kids after they get out of high school?"

"Everyone who has involvement with a grassroots program should be thinking about this problem. Every club has at least one young kid who walks in their door who trains intensely, competes actively, has all the potential in the world to become an elite athlete if given the opportunity. When they are forced to make an educational choice, we tell them; "Hey, thanks for representing our club at all these tournaments and paying your dues all these years, helping out and being an inspiration to all the younger kids. Good luck in the future"

The judo community deserves a collective "FUCK YOU" from every one of those kids and families that were left on their own to figure out how to get their kids to the next level in their judo careers while they pursued their education. What the hell is the point of having grassroots programs for kids if not to push them to the next level? Its almost pointless in my opinion. At the national level, it absolutely makes no sense at all.

SJSU and Cumberland aren't the educational answers for all those kids. But I'm damn sure it is for some of them. Why not figure out a way to make it easier for some of those kids to get there? After we figure that out, lets figure out how to get more college programs going, so there are more opportunities for kids to pursue their education and their competitive judo careers.

Don't tell me there is no money. I know for a FACT, that one club has a kid that has the dream of attending one of those programs when they graduate high school. Spoke with the sensei of that kid a couple of weeks ago. I guarantee you that the kid will have the opportunity and assistance from that club when the time comes. Why? Because the club is planning a couple years ahead of time, if that student stays committed to training and competing and keeps progressing. They are figuring out how to get the money to help. That's just one club. Don't tell that the other 700 plus clubs can't figure it out either. Its bullshit. "

It takes some serious thought and planning to do what you suggest. Not that difficult, really. But for some reason, nobody is doing it on a large scale, or at all.

It boils down to having some leadership, and people willing to give up their time (and money), but mostly time and talent to make it work. People with some foresight.

Nice post, Judoguy.

Ben R.

29

Cant' knock ALL of the college groups. In San Antonio, Tx the group training out of Our Lady of the Lake University is pretty intense. They lead their own group. Some of the train with us (www.tabmoc.com)
on alternate days and have some mad skills.

Never been there, but Southern Illinois University is supposed to have a nice group. Vince Fields (www.rmata.com) used to head the group until moving on.

Both these college groups focus on Aliveness, and training on what really works against a fully resisting opponent. Shouldn't we all?

tac364@yahoo.com

30

Ben & Josh,

This is a really good discussion and I don’t want to screw it up, but I have some questions about where somebody who wants to start judo and is not an elite athlete. I did not start Judo until I was in grad school (22) and I have really enjoyed it ever since. I was 137 pounds and 6’0 tall when I started. However, if I had walked into a snake pit of angst-ridden, socially awkward 18-21 year olds who wanted to break me because I was wasting their time as a novice, I would not have stuck it out.

I was a recreational Judo player when I started and have remained one. I do this for fun. It seems like there is no place for the regular guy in your idea of a college club. I remember college as mostly drinking and studying. Most people who do judo will never get to fight at Nationals, much less the Olympics. It seems to me like you would rather have 10 really good players than 100 average ones. I don’t know if US Judo can be that particular. If I ran a college club and I had to choose between an elite 18-21 year old being bored, or 10 engineering nerds getting hurt it is not even close. I would rather have a larger group of students who have fun and fight their best, than a small group of glassy eyed killers who think being good at Judo means anything in the real world. Maybe I am just concerned because I know I would not have made it out alive at San Jose.

Ron Huxen

31

"Cant' knock ALL of the college groups. In San Antonio, Tx the group training out of Our Lady of the Lake University is pretty intense. They lead their own group. Some of the train with us (www.tabmoc.com) on alternate days and have some mad skills. "

Well, I'm for sure not knocking anybody. If they are trying to do Judo, then I support them.

I think that Josh has a a good idea about 3 or 4 "judo magnet" colleges. That wouldn't eliminate all the other college programs.

Ben R.

32

judomonk wrote:"Ben & Josh,
This is a really good discussion and I don’t want to screw it up, but I have some questions about where somebody who wants to start judo and is not an elite athlete. I did not start Judo until I was in grad school (22) and I have really enjoyed it ever since. I was 137 pounds and 6’0 tall when I started. However, if I had walked into a snake pit of angst-ridden, socially awkward 18-21 year olds who wanted to break me because I was wasting their time as a novice, I would not have stuck it out."

Sure, who would want to put up with that? If it weren't for all the non-elite athletes then there wouldn't be in shiai in the US at any level.

"I was a recreational Judo player when I started and have remained one. I do this for fun. It seems like there is no place for the regular guy in your idea of a college club. I remember college as mostly drinking and studying. Most people who do judo will never get to fight at Nationals, much less the Olympics. It seems to me like you would rather have 10 really good players than 100 average ones. I don’t know if US Judo can be that particular. If I ran a college club and I had to choose between an elite 18-21 year old being bored, or 10 engineering nerds getting hurt it is not even close. I would rather have a larger group of students who have fun and fight their best, than a small group of glassy eyed killers who think being good at Judo means anything in the real world. Maybe I am just concerned because I know I would not have made it out alive at San Jose.

Ron Huxen"

No, I want LOTS of all sorts of people doing and enjoying Judo, whatever their focus might be. Out of those 10's of thousands of judoka, the cream will rise to the top, plus, we can build a base of support for ALL judoka, elite competitors and recreational players alike. Also, we can have programs for the guys and gals who focus on winning and want to rise as high as they can in that aspect of Judo. That's what Josh is talking about at the college level, a few "magnet" college programs so that aspiring HS kids can have a place to go and develop. Not killing all other Judo programs for the sake of winning a few medals.

Also, I don't think anybody at SJSU would have killed you. They have PE Judo classes, or at least they used to, for the non-glassy-eyed killers.

Ben Reinhardt

33

Ben wrote,

"No, I want LOTS of all sorts of people doing and enjoying Judo, whatever their focus might be. Out of those 10's of thousands of judoka, the cream will rise to the top, plus, we can build a base of support for ALL judoka, elite competitors and recreational players alike. Also, we can have programs for the guys and gals who focus on winning and want to rise as high as they can in that aspect of Judo. That's what Josh is talking about at the college level, a few "magnet" college programs so that aspiring HS kids can have a place to go and develop. Not killing all other Judo programs for the sake of winning a few medals."

Yeah. I agree. Not every college program needs to be San Jose or Cumberland. But if we could create another 8 programs throughout the United States that would be competitive with them; that would be all that is needed to give aspiring elite players real opportunity to pursue international judo and their education.

I think it comes back to scholarships. If the JI,JA, or JF were ever going to come up with real scholarship programs, the money should flow to the "elite" collegiate programs.

Any kid who gets a football, basketball or wrestling scholarship is expected to compete at a level during their college career that will help the school of their choice win championships or be competitive. I think the same thing should apply in judo. If the judo community is going to give scholarship money, it should be to help the United States become more competitive on the international circuit.

Right now, only SJSU and Cumberland should be destinations for scholarship money from the judo community. That's my opinion, anyway.

34

From: judo guy

Date: 02/12/05 09:44 AM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
1559 Total Posts Ignore User

Ben wrote,
"No, I want LOTS of all sorts of people doing and enjoying Judo, whatever their focus might be. Out of those 10's of thousands of judoka, the cream will rise to the top, plus, we can build a base of support for ALL judoka, elite competitors and recreational players alike. Also, we can have programs for the guys and gals who focus on winning and want to rise as high as they can in that aspect of Judo. That's what Josh is talking about at the college level, a few "magnet" college programs so that aspiring HS kids can have a place to go and develop. Not killing all other Judo programs for the sake of winning a few medals."

Judo replied:"Yeah. I agree. Not every college program needs to be San Jose or Cumberland. But if we could create another 8 programs throughout the United States that would be competitive with them; that would be all that is needed to give aspiring elite players real opportunity to pursue international judo and their education."

I agree, we need other "magnet schools". How much money would it take, do you think? Pay professional staff, facilities, maybe endow a chair at each university to buy our way into the facilities etc. Imagine an endowed "Judo" Chair in the PE department at a Big 8 or Big 10 university.

OK, maybe a smaller school! You could have a coaches degree in Judo program, or a Judo coach specialization for a BS or MS in PE w/teaching certs. Then those guys could start programs in the public schools where they went to work after graduation. That's how to get Judo really started in the US.

Judoguy wrote:"I think it comes back to scholarships. If the JI,JA, or JF were ever going to come up with real scholarship programs, the money should flow to the "elite" collegiate programs. "

Right, it should. It's about the sport aspect of the art, after all.

"Any kid who gets a football, basketball or wrestling scholarship is expected to compete at a level during their college career that will help the school of their choice win championships or be competitive. I think the same thing should apply in judo. If the judo community is going to give scholarship money, it should be to help the United States become more competitive on the international circuit."

Agreed.

"Right now, only SJSU and Cumberland should be destinations for scholarship money from the judo community. That's my opinion, anyway."

This may piss off some guys, but Cumberland is really not a candidate in my opinion. It's a small, christian oriented school in the middle of nowhere in Kentucky. That's not very appealing to many young people these day. Besides, is Cumberland really an "elite" program right now? In the days of Leo White, Eddie Liddy, et al., it sure was, but I don't think it is now.

Ben Reinhardt

35

im not going to say anything against cumberland...

my objuection to giving Ji,Ja,Jf money to cumberland is soley based on the fact that it is a prvate institution and that people have to take classes on religious theology to graduate (i think).

i, for one, would never go there for school under those circumstances. neither would the likes of Jim Bregman and im sure several others.

just safe to keep it in the public institutions in that regard.. sure, its PC bullcrap and i think that any school that is trying to get the job done should be helped, but hey.. what can i say..?

Ben.. SJSU survives because people care about the program. they care enough to make donations, send their kids here, get involved in whatever ways they can, and because we are fortunate enough to have people like Swain and Nakasone who believe that giving back and making sure kids have a program like SJSU is more important than their pocketbook.

i dont know why these other programs are stuck in their ruts. maybe the JI should send somebody from here around to all the college clubs and try to figure out what is working right and what isnt. then pinpoint a few schools where things can work and try to get some seed-money into getting it all going. its hard to say how it should begin and what schools should get it.. we are a million years from that right now becuase the issue isnt even being addressed properly.

flat out.. successful sports in the USA are successful college sports first and foremost. if USA Judo cant emulate that then nothing else we do is going to make a damn bit of a difference.. IMHO.

and, no.. im not at all against there being a place for people to take beginning judo in college. that would be stupid to say. i just think that there could be beginning classes where you actually get a credit for it and that way the serious players are kept from mauling the beginners.

that way the beginners are also given a chance to see the difference between beginning judo and advanced judo and they can have something to try and build to.

we have a beginning and intermediate judo class at SJSU. the varsity team is a completely seperate entity, but a lot of the beginners andintermediate guys compete locally and even at the college natioanls. hey, whatever works.

36

Josh wrote:"im not going to say anything against cumberland... "

Oh, come on Josh, you know you want to do it. It's OK, just go ahead and Resnick them.

Josh wrote;"my objuection to giving Ji,Ja,Jf money to cumberland is soley based on the fact that it is a prvate institution and that people have to take classes on religious theology to graduate (i think)."

I think that is a valid objection if true. Besides, you can't buy beer at the school, or even in the county.

"i, for one, would never go there for school under those circumstances. neither would the likes of Jim Bregman and im sure several others."

Josh, your soul is in danger of enternal damnation, you should get a post graduate degree from Cumberland ASAP.

"just safe to keep it in the public institutions in that regard.. sure, its PC bullcrap and i think that any school that is trying to get the job done should be helped, but hey.. what can i say..?"

I'd say keep it in secular institutions.

"Ben.. SJSU survives because people care about the program. they care enough to make donations, send their kids here, get involved in whatever ways they can, and because we are fortunate enough to have people like Swain and Nakasone who believe that giving back and making sure kids have a program like SJSU is more important than their pocketbook."

That is what all programs will need to survive in the long run, Josh. SJSU has a big head start in that regard because of it's long history in American collegiate Judo. But that won't happen overnight at a new program.

Josh wrote:"i dont know why these other programs are stuck in their ruts."

What other schools are really trying to get out of a rut, or even perceive they are in a rut?

I know that ISU is putting in a LOT of effort to get a bigger program up and running, within the PE department.

The problem there is that they get mostly if not ALL people who have never done Judo before, and most can't put in the time/effort to move up to the elite level.

Until they can get guys who have done a few years of Judo as juniors and in HS, they won't be producing lots of champion athletes, except for the odd person who shows up with some preexisting Judo (or wrestling)skills and will put in the time and effort.

What other universities really have serious programs up and running? Florida International?

snip..
flat out.. successful sports in the USA are successful college sports first and foremost. if USA Judo cant emulate that then nothing else we do is going to make a damn bit of a difference.. IMHO. "

I agree 100%.

and, no.. im not at all against there being a place for people to take beginning judo in college. that would be stupid to say. i just think that there could be beginning classes where you actually get a credit for it and that way the serious players are kept from mauling the beginners"

Of course not, I didn't think you thought that.

"that way the beginners are also given a chance to see the difference between beginning judo and advanced judo and they can have something to try and build to."

Right, I agree. Some might even join the advanced classes.

we have a beginning and intermediate judo class at SJSU. the varsity team is a completely seperate entity, but a lot of the beginners andintermediate guys compete locally and even at the college natioanls. hey, whatever works."

I knew that. But what you also have is guys who show up specifically to do Judo and make the varsity team, guys and gals who already have done a lot of Judo. That is a big head start.

Ben Reinhardt

37

In regards to Cumberland, Ben wrote;

"Besides, you can't buy beer at the school, or even in the county."

I gotta think its an open miracle they ever attracted any judokas.

38

"From: judo guy

Date: 02/13/05 11:33 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
1562 Total Posts Ignore User

In regards to Cumberland, Ben wrote;
"Besides, you can't buy beer at the school, or even in the county."

I gotta think its an open miracle they ever attracted any judokas."

Yeah, maybe they have changed since Eddie, Leo, et.al. were there...

Ben Reinhardt

39

no way on god's green eart where eddie and leo follwing those rules.

40

"no way on god's green eart where eddie and leo follwing those rules. "

Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine that crew there. Either I'm wrong about the rules and type of school it is, or it has changed.

I was told about Cumberland by a former elite female athlete who grew up in Kentucky and was familiar with the whole thing, so I'm pretty sure I'm correct.

Ben R.