here's a pic of Winston winning the final of the absolute, please could a blue name post it, thanks.
your links sucks dude, I'm getting the bling-frog.
Sorry to burst Chalupa's bubble, but the "olympic judo =bjj blue belt" is offset by the "7 year bjj black belt(who has also 'unofficially' trained judo and competed in mma)=judo WHITE belt"
Thanks for trying Le Shat forgot we can't hotlink from imageshat on here. oh well.
cgjj,
What you said is logical and common sense but it is kind of besides the point. Also my point and perspective has really nothing to do with Judo vs Bjj. He more to do with "learning curve" and advantage in regards to experience.
If a black belt in judo came from a school which meant the criteria you mentioned then this Judoka certainly shouldn't compete as a white belt or blue belt in Bjj competition. If a Judo black belt train NeWaza similar to a Bjjer AND if he had alot of competition experience you wouldn't want him to compete against people who are less experience and perhaps less able would you?
The guy in the story I mentioned wasn't given a purple belt in Bjj "just because" he was a Judo Black belt. He was given a purple belt because he "demostrated" at least that skill level ON THE MAT. The Bjj instructor gave him the purple belt mainly because he "wanted" him to compete for him. So there was a reason and motive behind it (awarding him the purple). This guy was more than holding his own against this instructor's top purple belt competitors. And the instructor "logically" put two and two together and saw an "advantage" for him in regards to future competitions. He has a ready made competitor who would do well for him (the instructor and the instructors school).
My understanding is this, and I guess it also depends on which Judo club and which Judo instructor the Judoka comes from, in Brazil Judo black belt are automatically put in the purple belt division in competition. And the really good ones with high level competition experience are put in higher belt divisions.
I believe this is done to prevent Bjj instructors from stacking their teams in the lower belt divisions with competitors who have alot of ability and experience.
If I were a Bjj coach/instructor whose school business (attracting students) depended on how well the school did in competition I certainly would want my team to be strong. And what better way to strengthen my team then to recruit individual who ALREADY have some experience and ability.
Dave and Dan Camarillo were Judo black belts when they started Bjj. Even if they weren't at the same level as Bjj black belt they certainly were better than the majority of blue and purples. And the fact they did so very well against blues and purples in Bjj competition said something. They had a huge advantage over those blues and purples who didn't nearly as much experience or ability. Furthermore the fact they were able to "learn" bjj at such a quick pace also all the more proves the had an advantage in regards to the learning curve.
My point goes beyond Bjj and Judo. It has more to do with the learning curve some people have which comes from their prior experience in another similiar sport/activity and how such individuals shouldn't compete at the lower levels.
He was wearing a Purple Belt because the Refferee gave him one to wear
as this was how this particular Ref was defining which fighter got points.
There was no yellow and green belt.
you guys make me LMAO -
wash yout vagina's for gods sake -
the judo dude should compete at what ever belt rank he is in bjj - even though he can throw better then you, and has better base, and mat sense, he still only knows "X" amount of bjj -
if someone threw my ass to the ground that easy - i wouldnt stand up with them again -
pull guard, or start on your ass like bravo did against royler
that simple -
Once again, belt divisions are ridiculous in tournaments.
no they aren't, they allow things to be broken up into manageable divisions. If there were no divisions you would have to win about 30 matches to take middleweight gold, becomes more about cardio than technique.
sreiter has butt scooted towards the correct.
sreiter-
obviously understands jiu jitsu
I was at the comp and watched a couple of Winston?s matches and IMHO
Blue belt was about right for his first outing, he did win but had some tough
Matches. Great atmosphere for the abs final, his opponent Norbi (from my
Club) double legged Winston for the first score.
Also it was good to have a top Judoka competing and the more everyone trains
Together the better (I train mainly BJJ and some Judo).
Lastly just because you do well in comp it does it mean you are technically
proficient to purple belt level?
This thread is one of the worst I have seen in some time. Cockney, filfy and CGJJ telling it like it is freshens it up a bit. Almost everyone at the tournament knew who Winnie was (and who the other Judoka there were) since a number of london based jitsuka also train at the budokwai - there is no element of sneaking or subterfuge.
I have sparred tachiwaza and newaza with Winnie on a number of occasions. His tachiwaza is, of course, of the highest calibre (I have flown Air Gordon on several occasions), that is why he is a judo olympian, however, the previous post where someone states he should be competing at brown or black belt in BJJ is ludicrous. Winnie has only been training BJJ a short time and no doubt his great athleticism gives him an edge over your average jitsuka, but he is currently (imho) at a blue belt level.
I am sure that his instructors, as world class grapplers themselves, are able to judge the level of their students and will promote him as and when they see fit.
Neil Adams
Hey Jsho, how was the trip? Shame you weren't in London to beat on me when I was there, Kevin firmly put me in my place though!
"no they aren't, they allow things to be broken up into manageable
divisions. If there were no divisions you would have to win about 30
matches to take middleweight gold, becomes more about cardio than
technique."
With 30 rounds, that's one heck of a tournament with about 1.07 billion
participants. What tournament are you talking about? Would that be the
"Every Man, Woman, and Child China Open"? ;-)
Even the biggest of weight divisions should have less than 257
participants. If that is the case, you are looking at no more than 8
matches needed to win the sucker. You can spread those out over 2 days.
4 matches per day for two days isn't so bad.
There you have it. Belt divisions stink. Amen.
Milkman, how many small comps do you know that run 2 days?
Normally, the Blue and white belt divisions for middle weights run to 5 or 6 rounds with purple having maybe 3 rounds, combining them makes it drag on, and causes it to be a who has the best cardio comp
I'd like to know what you mean by "small comp". Go ahead and have a
novice (white belt) division for new guys. That's fine. But if you take all
the blue belts in your example (6 rounds), that's 64 guys. If you add your
3 rounds of purples, that's 8 more guys. At 72 total, you're looking at 7
rounds with a small probability for the finalists. One more fight than
what you have in your example. Big deal. The payoff? No sandbagging.
No arguments.
Belts are nothing more than a subjective judgement of a particular
school's teacher. With belt divisions, what you end up with, to a great
degree, is a contest that indicates nothing more than how each individual
school decides to rank or reward it's particular students.
Milkman, I do get your point and agree that at a lot of tournaments including the purple in with the blues might make sense; many times I have seen 3 way round robins for purple with all three getting a medal.
The only issue I could see is that the 3 blue belts that get a purple belt in the first round will feel aggreived that they are paying the same as the other blues but have less chance of multiple matches. Maybe you could bring the purples in for the second round, however then you have the issue of a tired blue going against a fresh purple.
I guess part of the reason for the belt seperation is to keep the entrants happy and maximise the number of people entering.
White / Novice I think needs to be seperate, otherwise you would get white belts too worried to enter because they think they will get injured. This division is all about getting people to enter the comp and have some fun.
Whether you have the blues with the purples or not, you will have the
same number of matches. Half of everyone will lose the first match! If
you are a blue belt, you have a 50% of being knocked out in the first
round. Now this ignores my point that the blue/purple issue is a silly
issue to begin with. A purple at school A is not neccessarily the same
thing at school B.
If the belts were perfect (and this will never happen), if a blue belt
draws a purple and loses and then bitches and moans about having to
compete against a purple, that person needs to just buck up and quit
being such a big baby.
Slice it and dice it however you want. Half of everyone loses first
round. Half of the remainder lose next round and so on.
Belt divisions are a silly, silly way of seperating competitors.