"dont agree with karatekas and boxing punching mechanics being the same sorry "
It really depends on who you train with.
Having trained in both, I will say I've come across karate people who make the uraken work a lot like an ali-jab, a reverse punch work a lot like a cross, a shuto work a lot like hook, etc. etc.
Like I said, look at where kickboxing came from.
For myself, I don't do karate anymore (not for years and years) and I have some solid reasons why I don't, but it's got nothing much to do with kicking vs punching.
"A boxer who would be fighting your dumbass would have at least a basic takedown defense. Which is all he needs. He stuffs one of your pussy JJ/wrestling takedowns and your in range its fucking lights out."
Is this another one of those rules with exceptions?
B/C there's boxers that know sweet F/A about takedown defense.
A lot of assumptions and unsupported assertions on both sides of this arguement.
I take AKKI Kenpo and I tell you that we can take out a lot of styles of fighters depending on the school.My school is hardcore we train with strikes allowed everywhere and we grapple as well.There goes your grappling isn't taught to Kenpo people thing.We have BJJ guys and Olympic level wrestlers who help develop things in our system to help us in modern street fights and tournament fights.I have learned three ways to use a guillotine in Kenpo that will make the person tap or get a broken jaw.Kenpo guys hit very hard if you find the right school and boxers are way too cocky to me.I love watching boxers drop to the floor because they underestimate a good Kenpo man.
xvnukervx made some very valid points, backed up by the facts of his own personal sparring experience, and MMA fights that we've all seen. i don't agree with everything he says, but a lot of it is solid
"There are many other reasons why it is more effective, like not being a sport oriented."
With all due respect this is where you are wrong. BJJ and wrestling are so dominant because they are trained as a sport. We do not hide behind bs techniques that "could maim or kill". We know the results of our techniques because we can train in these disciplines at full speed or close to it and not risk serious injury. We hone our technique while Kenpo and other arts throw at the air in forms much like shadow boxing with less cardio. We train full speed for our entire work outs. We train as a professional athlete would in any respective sport. Repetition is certainly part of it. Our muscle memory exists in situations where most of the TMA's are completly lost in a real world situation. Simply put when the fear hits many drop the training because they are not familiar in that environment. Most BJJERs and wrestlers ARE familiar in that environment.
I will say up front that this will be my ONLY post in this old and tired discussion. I'm going to give my two cents, then LEAVE; I have no desire to get bogged down in such meaningless debate, that has been repeated on these forums for YEARS now.........
First off, there are many styles of Karate out there. (And I consider Kenpo/Kempo to be Karate styles, as well). Some styles were deliberately fashioned to be physical fitness methods for schoolchildren. Some were "watered down" by the Okinawans so as not to give the "effective" methods to the Japanese, their former conquerors. Even more were watered down so as not to teach the "true" techniques to the Gaijin (Americans). Finally, the vast majority of Karate schools here in the states are McDojos. There is ABSOLUTELY NO DISPUTE with that point.
There are still many of us who train in EFFECTIVE methods of Karate. We don't hide behind the "too deadly to really train" excuses, we are NOT one-dimensional, and the classical "reverse punch" was changed into a boxer's Cross punch decades ago. McDojos don't allow punching to the face; REAL Karate studios spar with face punches ALL THE TIME!
Where do you guys think the sport of American Kickboxing came from? It is merely KARATE with face punches ALLOWED!!!
I know I am in a very small minority in the Karate world, but let me give you an idea of what one of my students goes through to get their Karate Blackbelt:/o:p
1. They learn the traditional stances only as a "reference" point to the art's heritage, and to see the effects that such stances have on mobility vs. balance 2. They train and spar with identical footwork to a boxer 3. We kick to the legs, and knee to the legs and body. Kicking to the head is allowed, but only done if set-up properly (ala Williams vs Coleman!) 4. We use several punches: Jab, Cross, Hook, Uppercut, Overhand (all the same mechanics that boxing teaches), backfist/hammerfist, spinning backfist, ridge hand and knife hand (to neck/groin only), and vertical punch (similar to wing chun/JKD). Do we teach the "reverse punch?" yes - but ONLY to make a connection to what "other" styles are teaching, and show how to EXPLOIT their poor training 5. We try to bring in actual amatuer boxers to spar with at least a couple times a year. It is hard sometimes, 'cause all the local boxing gyms within 2 hours drive have left or gone out of business. But we hold our own with them when they come in!!! Not saying any of my guys are going pro any time soon, but we can hang with the average amatuer boxer (even knock 'em out sometimes), and the "untrained" guy on the street would be a joke! 6. Every one of my KARATE blackbelts has to have BJJ Blue-belt level grappling skills. NO EXCEPTIONS!! I have had KARATE students that have tapped out legit BJJ purples....... before you say "bullshit" you better come spar with us, I'm not joking. We were bringing medals and trophies home from NAGA competitions before any of us ever got formal BJJ instruction or rank. Is it "traditional" Karate? HELL NO!!!! But, it is still "Karate" nonetheless. Our "Karate" style emphasized cross-training long before the first UFC ever came out!!!