Abdulmanap MMA seminar which was linked in Jack Slack’s post Khabib/Conor review. Jack specifically highlights his philosophy on high crotches and having the shooting head on the outside to avoid uppercuts and knees.
Why was Abdulmanap denied the visas to corner Khabib btw?
leifdawg -FatBuddha - That's cool if true, but the problem is how extremely prevalent dangerous beliefs are in the Muslim community that aren't terrorists. For instance, according to Pew polls there is extremely wide support for shariah law, throwing gays in prison, death to apostates, lack of freedom of speech, etc. A prime example is how Khabib could train with or have on his team someone with a "I'm not Charlie Hebdo" shirt which advertises the belief that murder is an acceptable punishment for cartoons we don't like.I think you would find similar beliefs among rural christian communities
Interesting point, but can you think of one example where a rural christian community reacted with violence over a parody of Jesus?
Do you remember the parody of Christianity in the Mat Damon - Ben Affleck film Dogma that had a worldwide release thousands of times greater than the film depicting Mohammed that thousands of Muslims rioted over? Do you recall news that one single person from a rural Christian community committed violence over the film Dogma? At some point we have to stop doing mental gymnastics and logically admit that some groups because of their belief system are more apt to use violence as a response to the criticism of their belief system. To not do so would dishonest and do a disservice to reform.
Wasa-B, are you a Muslim?
In late November 2005, Smith responded to talk of a possible Dogma sequel on the ViewAskew.com message boards:
Now? I think I might have more to say. And, yes, the Last Scion would be at the epicenter of it. And she’d have to be played by Alanis. And we’d need a bigger budget, because the entire third act would be the Apocalypse. Scary thing is this: the film would have to touch on Islam. And unlike the Catholic League, when those cats don’t like what you do, they issue a death warrant on your ass. And now that I’ve got a family, I’m not as free to stir the shit-pot as I was when I was single, back when I made Dogma. I mean, now I’ve gotta think about more than my own safety and well-being. But regardless – yeah, a Dogma followup’s been swimming around in my head for some time now.[15]
Carogan -I assumed hardcore MMA fans knew that Abulmanap (Khabib's father) set up these gyms to pull youth away from falling in to Islamic extremist groups.
That's why it pisses me off so much to hear people shitting on Khabib about his faith. There's a difference between radical fundamentalists and everyone else, no matter what your religion of choice is.
The conservative cuckboys who see red at anything Muslim are all simpletons, who have no idea about the last 20-30 years in the Caucasus region, or really anything outside the 5 miles outside of their front door, where they find counsin wives.
They don't know that it was the Dagestani population at large, that fought off an Islamist invasion of their country in the early-mid 2000's with citizen militias. For people who don't understand what this means. It means, the precursor to ISIS invaded Dagestan, Chechnya, Azerbaijan and other Caucasus republics in the early/mid 2000's in an attempt to setup a Califate, and they were fought, and defeated by a coalition of local militias, and eventually federal Russian forces.
Hard core Islamists in this region are now few and far between, and most fled to Syria and Iraq to join ISIS in the early part of this decade.
If that's the case, I wonder what Khabib's father thinks about an "ex terrorist" scumbag managing his son's career.
FatBuddha -Carogan -FatBuddha - That's cool if true, but the problem is how extremely prevalent dangerous beliefs are in the Muslim community that aren't terrorists. For instance, according to Pew polls there is extremely wide support for shariah law, throwing gays in prison, death to apostates, lack of freedom of speech, etc. A prime example is how Khabib could train with or have on his team someone with a "I'm not Charlie Hebdo" shirt which advertises the belief that murder is an acceptable punishment for cartoons we don't like.And yet they aren't throwing gays in prison and most don't bring death to apostates, etc.
There was alot of anti-Hebdo sentiment in the western world too for the cartoons they posted and Hebdo was criticized heavily for continuing to post them. They posted those cartoons with the intent to be provocative - and they got their wish and got a reaction.
Not condoning the Hebdo related attacks at all but people of every nation in the world of every ethnicity or faith have reacted to disrespect like this in a violent manner at some point in history. You can have freedom of speech without inciting hatred with provacative language.
I don't support Shariah law, I don't subscribe to the Islam faith, but I won't hate on them. I also think alot of misunderstanding occurs between these cultures too due to language translation as well as the economic chasm that exists between the two worlds - its far easier to be righteous when you live in the richest nation in the world and don't have to deal with third world problems that affect every aspect of life including basic survival.
Thank you for a civil debate. I disagree on a number of points though.
For instance, the majority may not actually be throwing gays in prison but they are supporting governments who do. The ones actually doing the murders etc. will always be the minority but if the legal system voted in by the majority doesn’t condemn them, they are also complicit.
I don’t think economics really can be used as an excuse for human rights abuses directly stemming from a harmful belief system especially when countries like Saudi Arabia are amongst the richest in the world.
I don’t think that was the reaction the cartoonists (death to over 200 people) were looking for but trying to inspire social change to a belief system they saw as violent.
We can always say, other cultures have reacted with violence, but we would be dishonest if we didn’t say there were differences in propensity to do so in a certain time and place. There are far more cartoons parodying Jesus than Mohammed for instance and almost 0 violence resulting from the Jesus parodies. On the other hand, from Salem Rushdie’s Satanic Verses and countless other examples it’s pretty blatant that if you criticize Islam, you will get death threats.
I also think not supporting Shariah law doesn’t mean that you have "hate" in your heart against Muslims. Khabib seems to have great things about him for instance. He seems funny as hell, seems like a great and loyal friend, a dutiful son, has a tremendous work ethic, and is a phenomenal fighter. But when I see a picture of him with a bride not allowed to show her face or him hanging out with someone who murders gays, that disturbs me because it makes it more likely that he holds beliefs that are harmful to human rights.
Calling Saudi Arabia one of the richest countries in the world, is only true in a literal sense. Saudi Arabia, as in House Saud who rule Arabia, is rich. The people of Saudi Arabia are not wealthy. They were poor. They are extemely poor. There is a ruling class in Saudi Arabia, that live like Westerners, and then there is the rest of the country, who live in squallor.
It has some of the greatest income disparity in the world.
I’m curious if you know anything about Wahabism. Wahabism is a sect of Islam, which would be correctly called a heresy if it was Christian, that was fostered and grown by House Saud. Wahabism claims direct lineage for House Saud to Muhammed, enshrines the unsassailable rights of House Saud in the Quran, and a lot more. In short, House Saud formed an alliance with the founder of Wahabism in the 1700’s, where Saud would protect and fund Wahabism, and in exchange, Wahabism would glorify Saud and extend house Sauds power.
Wahabism is now exported around the world in militant fashion by Saudi Arabia. One of the curiosities of Islam is that, the authentic Quran is typically not translated from Arabic, and MOST Muslims cannot read Arabic. If you know anything about Christian history, this should be alarming/interesting to you. Since this is the exact manner by which the Roman Catholic Church held onto absolute power in the Christian world, until the reformation began to take hold. The Bible was only in Latin, could only be read by people who spoke Latin. This meant that the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church was strictly controlled by the clergy and those who thought like the clergy. Then, people started translating the bible to English, French, German, etc etc. This allowed people to read the bible and see that the Church hadn’t exactly been on the level about the message of Jesus. It threw the entire society into turmoil. Protestantism rose, 30 years of brutal religious wars swept Europe, and the Catholics launched a counter reformation, in which they reformed their own church to soften their position on most of the abolutist principles they held, and there, and then, is when the power of the Church over secular states in Europe, was undone. That point in history marks the rise of secularism in Europe.
It might interest you to know, Saudi Arabia has translated THEIR Wahabist version of the Quran into every language that Muslims speak, and exported those Qurans around the world. If you have a struggling Mosque, in say, London, Saudi Arabia will offer to pay the bills of your Mosque, if you will use their Quran.
It might also interest you to know, that probably 99% of all terror attacks, are carried out by people who follow either Wahabism, or Salafism, which are very similar sects, with Wahabism probably the more radical of the two.
Target_the_Gash -Osbot -FatBuddha -Carogan -FatBuddha - That's cool if true, but the problem is how extremely prevalent dangerous beliefs are in the Muslim community that aren't terrorists. For instance, according to Pew polls there is extremely wide support for shariah law, throwing gays in prison, death to apostates, lack of freedom of speech, etc. A prime example is how Khabib could train with or have on his team someone with a "I'm not Charlie Hebdo" shirt which advertises the belief that murder is an acceptable punishment for cartoons we don't like.And yet they aren't throwing gays in prison and most don't bring death to apostates, etc.
There was alot of anti-Hebdo sentiment in the western world too for the cartoons they posted and Hebdo was criticized heavily for continuing to post them. They posted those cartoons with the intent to be provocative - and they got their wish and got a reaction.
Not condoning the Hebdo related attacks at all but people of every nation in the world of every ethnicity or faith have reacted to disrespect like this in a violent manner at some point in history. You can have freedom of speech without inciting hatred with provacative language.
I don't support Shariah law, I don't subscribe to the Islam faith, but I won't hate on them. I also think alot of misunderstanding occurs between these cultures too due to language translation as well as the economic chasm that exists between the two worlds - its far easier to be righteous when you live in the richest nation in the world and don't have to deal with third world problems that affect every aspect of life including basic survival.
Thank you for a civil debate. I disagree on a number of points though.
For instance, the majority may not actually be throwing gays in prison but they are supporting governments who do. The ones actually doing the murders etc. will always be the minority but if the legal system voted in by the majority doesn’t condemn them, they are also complicit.
I don’t think economics really can be used as an excuse for human rights abuses directly stemming from a harmful belief system especially when countries like Saudi Arabia are amongst the richest in the world.
I don’t think that was the reaction the cartoonists (death to over 200 people) were looking for but trying to inspire social change to a belief system they saw as violent.
We can always say, other cultures have reacted with violence, but we would be dishonest if we didn’t say there were differences in propensity to do so in a certain time and place. There are far more cartoons parodying Jesus than Mohammed for instance and almost 0 violence resulting from the Jesus parodies. On the other hand, from Salem Rushdie’s Satanic Verses and countless other examples it’s pretty blatant that if you criticize Islam, you will get death threats.
I also think not supporting Shariah law doesn’t mean that you have "hate" in your heart against Muslims. Khabib seems to have great things about him for instance. He seems funny as hell, seems like a great and loyal friend, a dutiful son, has a tremendous work ethic, and is a phenomenal fighter. But when I see a picture of him with a bride not allowed to show her face or him hanging out with someone who murders gays, that disturbs me because it makes it more likely that he holds beliefs that are harmful to human rights.
Calling Saudi Arabia one of the richest countries in the world, is only true in a literal sense. Saudi Arabia, as in House Saud who rule Arabia, is rich. The people of Saudi Arabia are not wealthy. They were poor. They are extemely poor. There is a ruling class in Saudi Arabia, that live like Westerners, and then there is the rest of the country, who live in squallor.
It has some of the greatest income disparity in the world.
I’m curious if you know anything about Wahabism. Wahabism is a sect of Islam, which would be correctly called a heresy if it was Christian, that was fostered and grown by House Saud. Wahabism claims direct lineage for House Saud to Muhammed, enshrines the unsassailable rights of House Saud in the Quran, and a lot more. In short, House Saud formed an alliance with the founder of Wahabism in the 1700’s, where Saud would protect and fund Wahabism, and in exchange, Wahabism would glorify Saud and extend house Sauds power.
Wahabism is now exported around the world in militant fashion by Saudi Arabia. One of the curiosities of Islam is that, the authentic Quran is typically not translated from Arabic, and MOST Muslims cannot read Arabic. If you know anything about Christian history, this should be alarming/interesting to you. Since this is the exact manner by which the Roman Catholic Church held onto absolute power in the Christian world, until the reformation began to take hold. The Bible was only in Latin, could only be read by people who spoke Latin. This meant that the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church was strictly controlled by the clergy and those who thought like the clergy. Then, people started translating the bible to English, French, German, etc etc. This allowed people to read the bible and see that the Church hadn’t exactly been on the level about the message of Jesus. It threw the entire society into turmoil. Protestantism rose, 30 years of brutal religious wars swept Europe, and the Catholics launched a counter reformation, in which they reformed their own church to soften their position on most of the abolutist principles they held, and there, and then, is when the power of the Church over secular states in Europe, was undone. That point in history marks the rise of secularism in Europe.
It might interest you to know, Saudi Arabia has translated THEIR Wahabist version of the Quran into every language that Muslims speak, and exported those Qurans around the world. If you have a struggling Mosque, in say, London, Saudi Arabia will offer to pay the bills of your Mosque, if you will use their Quran.
It might also interest you to know, that probably 99% of all terror attacks, are carried out by people who follow either Wahabism, or Salafism, which are very similar sects, with Wahabism probably the more radical of the two.
No wonder Saudi Arabia is so esteemed amongst despots the world over...
The Bush family have been a great asset for the Saudi royal family.
Osbot -FatBuddha -Carogan -FatBuddha - That's cool if true, but the problem is how extremely prevalent dangerous beliefs are in the Muslim community that aren't terrorists. For instance, according to Pew polls there is extremely wide support for shariah law, throwing gays in prison, death to apostates, lack of freedom of speech, etc. A prime example is how Khabib could train with or have on his team someone with a "I'm not Charlie Hebdo" shirt which advertises the belief that murder is an acceptable punishment for cartoons we don't like.And yet they aren't throwing gays in prison and most don't bring death to apostates, etc.
There was alot of anti-Hebdo sentiment in the western world too for the cartoons they posted and Hebdo was criticized heavily for continuing to post them. They posted those cartoons with the intent to be provocative - and they got their wish and got a reaction.
Not condoning the Hebdo related attacks at all but people of every nation in the world of every ethnicity or faith have reacted to disrespect like this in a violent manner at some point in history. You can have freedom of speech without inciting hatred with provacative language.
I don't support Shariah law, I don't subscribe to the Islam faith, but I won't hate on them. I also think alot of misunderstanding occurs between these cultures too due to language translation as well as the economic chasm that exists between the two worlds - its far easier to be righteous when you live in the richest nation in the world and don't have to deal with third world problems that affect every aspect of life including basic survival.
Thank you for a civil debate. I disagree on a number of points though.
For instance, the majority may not actually be throwing gays in prison but they are supporting governments who do. The ones actually doing the murders etc. will always be the minority but if the legal system voted in by the majority doesn’t condemn them, they are also complicit.
I don’t think economics really can be used as an excuse for human rights abuses directly stemming from a harmful belief system especially when countries like Saudi Arabia are amongst the richest in the world.
I don’t think that was the reaction the cartoonists (death to over 200 people) were looking for but trying to inspire social change to a belief system they saw as violent.
We can always say, other cultures have reacted with violence, but we would be dishonest if we didn’t say there were differences in propensity to do so in a certain time and place. There are far more cartoons parodying Jesus than Mohammed for instance and almost 0 violence resulting from the Jesus parodies. On the other hand, from Salem Rushdie’s Satanic Verses and countless other examples it’s pretty blatant that if you criticize Islam, you will get death threats.
I also think not supporting Shariah law doesn’t mean that you have "hate" in your heart against Muslims. Khabib seems to have great things about him for instance. He seems funny as hell, seems like a great and loyal friend, a dutiful son, has a tremendous work ethic, and is a phenomenal fighter. But when I see a picture of him with a bride not allowed to show her face or him hanging out with someone who murders gays, that disturbs me because it makes it more likely that he holds beliefs that are harmful to human rights.
Calling Saudi Arabia one of the richest countries in the world, is only true in a literal sense. Saudi Arabia, as in House Saud who rule Arabia, is rich. The people of Saudi Arabia are not wealthy. They were poor. They are extemely poor. There is a ruling class in Saudi Arabia, that live like Westerners, and then there is the rest of the country, who live in squallor.
It has some of the greatest income disparity in the world.
I’m curious if you know anything about Wahabism. Wahabism is a sect of Islam, which would be correctly called a heresy if it was Christian, that was fostered and grown by House Saud. Wahabism claims direct lineage for House Saud to Muhammed, enshrines the unsassailable rights of House Saud in the Quran, and a lot more. In short, House Saud formed an alliance with the founder of Wahabism in the 1700’s, where Saud would protect and fund Wahabism, and in exchange, Wahabism would glorify Saud and extend house Sauds power.
Wahabism is now exported around the world in militant fashion by Saudi Arabia. One of the curiosities of Islam is that, the authentic Quran is typically not translated from Arabic, and MOST Muslims cannot read Arabic. If you know anything about Christian history, this should be alarming/interesting to you. Since this is the exact manner by which the Roman Catholic Church held onto absolute power in the Christian world, until the reformation began to take hold. The Bible was only in Latin, could only be read by people who spoke Latin. This meant that the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church was strictly controlled by the clergy and those who thought like the clergy. Then, people started translating the bible to English, French, German, etc etc. This allowed people to read the bible and see that the Church hadn’t exactly been on the level about the message of Jesus. It threw the entire society into turmoil. Protestantism rose, 30 years of brutal religious wars swept Europe, and the Catholics launched a counter reformation, in which they reformed their own church to soften their position on most of the abolutist principles they held, and there, and then, is when the power of the Church over secular states in Europe, was undone. That point in history marks the rise of secularism in Europe.
It might interest you to know, Saudi Arabia has translated THEIR Wahabist version of the Quran into every language that Muslims speak, and exported those Qurans around the world. If you have a struggling Mosque, in say, London, Saudi Arabia will offer to pay the bills of your Mosque, if you will use their Quran.
It might also interest you to know, that probably 99% of all terror attacks, are carried out by people who follow either Wahabism, or Salafism, which are very similar sects, with Wahabism probably the more radical of the two.
Yes, I’ve heard of it, but a few points…first, the point was made by another poster that poverty causes radical dangerous beliefs. Your post pretty must shows that the Saudi Royal family the richest people in Saudi Arabia are responsible for propagating harmful beliefs. Next, if you have some sources that the original Koran doesn’t contain many of the problematic teachings - I’d love to see evidence of this. But I’m skeptical because the very example of Muhammad as a warlord and many of his teachings are at best, problematic. For instance, why is beheading such a common instrument of death of Islamic terror? To say it has no relation to the “perfect man”, Muhammed watching and praising the beheading of thousands of prisoners in a battle that is commemorated by Muslims to this day would be dishonest or ignorant. I hope there is some peaceful version of the Koran Muslims everywhere will adopt just as Christians in practice have largely ignored the old testament in the modern day. Here’s to hope.
Realistically, the Kadyrov-MMA connection is old news at this point. We've been discussing that here for years.
I've attempted to reply 3x now. There was an error saving your post, please try again. This is the super short, version.
Wahabist Quran = New Testament where all the "Don't murder it's bad" stuff is ignored or downplayed and all the violence (of which the new testament has a FUCKLOAD of both by man and God) is glorified, along with Absolutism (divine rule rule of Saud with no checks and balances)
ISM's don't cause radicalism. They shape how radicalism emerges when it does emerge. Racism = South Africa Apartheid. Nationalism = Nazi Germany. Socialism = Communist USSR. Islamism = Taliban Afghanistan. Areas all at risk for radicalism, radicalize around an issue core to their beliefs or needs.
So yes, poor at risk people are targetted by the Sauds. Obviously. They don't often successfully recruit bankers, and mid management to blow themselves up.
FatBuddha - That's cool if true, but the problem is how extremely prevalent dangerous beliefs are in the Muslim community that aren't terrorists. For instance, according to Pew polls there is extremely wide support for shariah law, throwing gays in prison, death to apostates, lack of freedom of speech, etc. A prime example is how Khabib could train with or have on his team someone with a "I'm not Charlie Hebdo" shirt which advertises the belief that murder is an acceptable punishment for cartoons we don't like.
You hit the nail on the head. Just because they are not scream for Jihad doesn’t make the things they believe barbaric.
Osbot -I've attempted to reply 3x now. There was an error saving your post, please try again. This is the super short, version.
Wahabist Quran = New Testament where all the "Don't murder it's bad" stuff is ignored or downplayed and all the violence (of which the new testament has a FUCKLOAD of both by man and God) is glorified, along with Absolutism (divine rule rule of Saud with no checks and balances)
ISM's don't cause radicalism. They shape how radicalism emerges when it does emerge. Racism = South Africa Apartheid. Nationalism = Nazi Germany. Socialism = Communist USSR. Islamism = Taliban Afghanistan. Areas all at risk for radicalism, radicalize around an issue core to their beliefs or needs.
So yes, poor at risk people are targetted by the Sauds. Obviously. They don't often successfully recruit bankers, and mid management to blow themselves up.
Sucks about reposting, I hate that. I don’t doubt that poverty is a risk factor for recruitment, but not without the seed of ideology, thus I think the problem is ideology not economics. Time and time again we see extremely educated and well off Jihadists engage in terrorism. How come we never see poor Christians or Buddhists being recruited by the promise of a better life as an Islamic terrorist? The problem is ideology.
S Dubaya -FatBuddha - That's cool if true, but the problem is how extremely prevalent dangerous beliefs are in the Muslim community that aren't terrorists. For instance, according to Pew polls there is extremely wide support for shariah law, throwing gays in prison, death to apostates, lack of freedom of speech, etc. A prime example is how Khabib could train with or have on his team someone with a "I'm not Charlie Hebdo" shirt which advertises the belief that murder is an acceptable punishment for cartoons we don't like.You hit the nail on the head. Just because they are not scream for Jihad doesn’t make the things they believe barbaric.
thank you