Just a quick comparison so that those that think it is a viable way to win can consider how most fans view it.
It is the equivilent of the following in football.
getting control of the ball, constantly making running plays up the middle knowing full well that you will only get 3 yards per rush.. but letting the full 30 seconds click off the clock before running the next play. Then on forth you go for it and do a qb sneak for 1 more yard...just barely getting it.
Then you wait 30 seconds, and do it all again...
this takes up the entire quarter...but when you get in the red zone, you just control the ball and kick a field goal...
the other team gets the ball and goes for it all over and over and if they get lucky, they score big...but often they don't, so half the time they do score...
but they hardly ever get the ball because you control it so much... so at the end of the game, you win 12-7... although it was close, they had no chance.
Good strategy... effective..but boring as all hell and if that was the way every football game went, fewer epople would watch every week.
You guys jumping Josh's case for "lay and pray" aren't giving Leben his due credit, IMO.
I was actually really impressed with Leben on the bottom. Josh wassn't trying to lay and pray. He was trying to ground and pound. Chris just did a great job of keeping it tight and going for submissions. Excellent job of getting/keep guard too.
No offense man, but there are alot of fighters that do that strategy but don't get picked up by big shows because no fans want to see that.
It will become apparent that this sport will all come down to fan appeal.. so even if you're a BJJ guy who starts in guard, passes to side, then to mount, then to back..if you never hit him and can't get a finish, the ref will stand you up because you're putting the fans to sleep.
Subs and Ko's are the way to the future...Lay and Pray and sprawl and stall are the ways to the gutter.
Scott, I agree to a point.. (not that Chris was rewarded for his actions) but at the same time, Josh never stood up and let his hands fly, or tried to sit up and pass/strike in order to be more effective (as in what Fedor does to get his power). Because when you do that you allow the opponent more room, opportunities... but you have a better chance to end the fight or do damage.
Josh was afraid to do that, thus he was lay'n and pray'n.
If I had Josh's wrestling ability and lack of MMA experience, and I was fighting someone like Chris "19-1" Leben who "breaks jaws", I wouldn't stand up with him either.
"...or tried to sit up and pass/strike in order to be more effective (as in what Fedor does to get his power). Because when you do that you allow the opponent more room, opportunities"
This is where we dissagree. I thought he was trying, but Leben did a great job of keeping Josh close. For example, every time Josh tried to cross-face Leben to create a little space, he ended up with an both arms on the same side. Almost got caught in a kimura once.
"No offense man, but there are alot of fighters that do that strategy but don't get picked up by big shows because no fans want to see that."
No argument here. However, I think Josh has a better chance of making it to the UFC by getting a win and advancing to the next round of TUF, than standing up, getting knocked out, and being elminated from the show.
"I'd rather watch an exciting fighter lose than a boring fighter win."
I agree completely. Who doesn't? But if you were the fighter, and you knew standing and trading would get you knocked out quickly and badly, would you do it to make for an exiciting fight?
Also, these guys are fighting with a different path to the UFC than people just working their way up through smaller shows. For every single TUF fighter, their best chance of making it to the UFC is by winning TUF. A 100% chance is a pretty good one. So I could definitely see why they might err on the side of caution. A lot of them probably have a "winning this show is my only shot at the UFC" attitude. Even those who don't have that attitude, know that it's hands-down their best chance.
BTW: I wasn't saying "Stand up and let his hands fly" as in standing up (both on their feet)...
I meant stand up while in the guard, keeping your opponent on their back and letting more powerful blows fly down. Josh would have been stupid to stand up and box...