Yes , but there is a point In time when something ceases from being what it claims to be. The true founders of karate never sparred In the boxing rings using boxing techniques and still called it karate.
The very same reason why I stated that machida line of karate clearly points out and identifies certain moves and techniques which are exclusively karate.
Others , unfortunately which is the large population of fighters claiming to also represent karate ,do In fact not use karate techniques at all devised from karate originally but instead used techniques that were adapted into karate from other styles like kickboxing, boxing or muaythai.
Why claim the effectiveness of karate if you are infact using techniques borrowed from other disciplines. Machida and a very few others might be a exception to this but even they also mix up their striking somewhat. 
Kirik - Very cool thread
vtfu
Newaza freak - Yes , but there is a point In time when something ceases from being what it claims to be. The true founders of karate never sparred In the boxing rings using boxing techniques and still called it karate. <br><br>The very same reason why I stated that machida line of karate clearly points out and identifies certain moves and techniques which are exclusively karate. <br><br>Others , unfortunately which is the large population of fighters claiming to also represent karate ,do In fact not use karate techniques at all devised from karate originally but instead used techniques that were adapted into karate from other styles like kickboxing, boxing or muaythai. <br><br>Why claim the effectiveness of karate if you are infact using techniques borrowed from other disciplines. Machida and a very few others might be a exception to this but even they also mix up their striking somewhat. <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>
I get what you're saying which i was i agree that Machida is a better and rarer example of displaying a more "pure" version of karate in MMA but again, some of the standards up there are not applied evenly cross the board imo:
"The true founders of karate never sparred In the boxing rings using boxing techniques and still called it karate"
All grappling style have borrowed and absorbed techniques from each other and its still called what it is. Wrestling and jujitsu may have true combat origins but there are still differences from that to the sport versions to MMA (also regarding in what type of venue it took place). So just because the karate founders werent sparring in rings doesnt make the biggest point in what is true karate and not imo.
"In fact not use karate techniques at all devised from karate originally but instead used techniques that were adapted into karate from other styles like kickboxing, boxing or muaythai."
What exactly is your defination of "kickboxing?" Isnt karate one of the roots styles of it?
What styles only use techniques that were used when they were originally devised?
I just dont why if karate borrows or cross trains with others, it cant be called karate.
It kinda reeks of the 100% pure zhoozhitsu mentality of the early UG days when BJJ boners wanted everyone to credit all fighters' BJJ crosstraining but down played the fact that nearly all BJJers were also cross training as well.
Sambo and BJJ is still Sambo and BJJ even though both are either entirely derived from judo or largely from it.
The Russian style of judo is different from classical Japanese judo. But nobody doesnt call Russian judo guys "not judo anymore" because they do some stuff that is closer to wrestling.
Kashiwazaki was Japanese but also incorporated a lot of non-classical Japanese judo which he borrowed from sambo among other styles but he never ceased to be a judoka.
I do agree that someone like GSP who has a Kyokushin background is less an example of "karate in MMA" than someone like Machida but i wouldnt say GSP has no karate in his game either. His arm posture still resembles the kyokushin posture, doesnt it? Ala Kikuno as well.
ttt
http://hayabusamixedmartialarts.com/ryan-jimmo-instructor
Ryan Jimmo was born on November 27th, 1981 in Saint John, New Brunswick, and is no stranger to Martial Arts. He grew up in a Karate family, and is the youngest of four children. His father, a 5th degree black belt passed the sport onto Jimmo, and at the age of ten he did what he does with everything else in his life, he thirsted for more. As a child he was a victim of bullying, but as he progressed as a fighter and gained confidence through Karate, his fighting abilities demanded respect on the streets of Saint John.
His siblings use to test his balance while he walked across a two by four by shaking it. He spent night after night in his parent's basement, which was floored with brown shag carpet covered in tape to assist him with his foot work. He would practice the same kicks over and over again, perfecting every move until his feet were raw and dripping with blood. One weekend while his parents were away, ambivalent to any consequences, he sold their couch and television for $100 to make more room to train. His fathers only objection was that he didnt get more money for the couch. With his father as his Sensei, and his mothers unwavering support, Jimmo has over a 1000 Karate fights under his belt, presently holds a 2nd degree black belt, and is a Pan Am Silver and Bronze medalist. His Karate background continues to play a pivotal role in and outside of the octagon. Karate taught him not only great fighting techniques but great discipline, focus and work ethic.
The same reason the founding fathers of karate would never call what chuck liddel or Gsp do karate, is the same reason Helio Gracie would never call Brazilian jiujitsu..... Gracie jiujitsu.
I really believe it comes down to what you define karate to be ..... If you grew up doing karate In the 60s or 70s, there is no debate as to what is karate and what is not.
On the other hand if you started doing karate In the last 10 or even 20 years, karate could very well mean just about anything.
voted up/ great thread mike
MarkRobinson - voted up/ great thread mike
Thanks bro!
#17. Jeff Newton. This name popped in my head right away when I saw the thread title. I'm glad he made the list. I really think that Jeff could have really done something. He was a big point fighter back in the day and he got into mma after a big layoff and later in the game and at an older age. He was getting ground help and training from Erik Paulson and it was starting to show in that fight with Hoger. 10 years younger and a lot of actual mma training, I think he could have developed into a good prospect.
A couple of names that belong on the list :
Keith Hackney - Kenpo Karate Black Belt. Used Karate effectively in the early days of the UFC.
Tim Sylvia - I believe is an Okinawan Karate Black Belt. Former UFC Champion.
Chitat - A couple of names that belong on the list :
Keith Hackney - Kenpo Karate Black Belt. Used Karate effectively in the early days of the UFC.
Tim Sylvia - I believe is an Okinawan Karate Black Belt. Former UFC Champion.
I spent 7 yrs at MFS training. Pat Miletich is a Okinawan Karate Black Belt but i never once heard Tim Sylvia speak of Karate or mention it. I think you are misinformed.
Newaza freak - The same reason the founding fathers of karate would never call what chuck liddel or Gsp do karate, is the same reason Helio Gracie would never call Brazilian jiujitsu..... Gracie jiujitsu.
They do call BJJ, GJJ. In fact, its trademarked "GJJ." Or is that more a Rorian thing? But lots of people call it GJJ.
ttt
Yeah great thread Mike. ttt. Like to hear some more discussion on this.
DanTheWolfman - Also, was the Fillipino 40 yr old Karate MMA guy mentioned???
It is Shotokan fighter, 43 y/old dentist Angelito Manguray.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QG2wnfvtdE
http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?8436-This-Filipino-dentist-is-a-Mixed-Martials-Arts-star
Fun guy to watch as he demolishes young "jack of all trade" -MMA guys.
I agree with this post KARATE is a good complement in MMA
Didn't Maurice Smith get his start in traditional karate?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QG2wnfvtdE&feature=player_embedded
Angelito Manguray the next Machida? Dude is old though, so maybe not, but he looks like a karate beast.
Shotokan blackbelt John Makdessi
