TTT
Lloyd Irvin unquestionably had good success as a competitor and even better success as a coach. For these two things he deserves a ton of credit.
For crap like this?
http://www.marylandrealestatesecrets.com/
And all his email psuedo-scams? He deserves all the crap people give him.
Max
Slappymaxi,
What is your net worth?
I would be willing to bet Lloyd quadruples yours. So what makes you expert enough to call what he is doing a scam?
Just wondering what your credentials are.
Muhsin
travenbjj - Yes, I am afraid of you and Lloyd Irvin so I dick tucked. You got me.
Dont know if you are afraid of him, but have you ever trained with Lloyd? I have a feeling it could be a humbling experience.
lol
Oh yes.
muhsin - Slappymaxi,
What is your net worth?
I would be willing to bet Lloyd quadruples yours. So what makes you expert enough to call what he is doing a scam?
Just wondering what your credentials are.
Muhsin
Is something disqualified from being a scam if it brings in a lot of money? I'm not even talking about Lloyd here, just in general.
As for Lloyd, his marketing is goofy but it appears to work for him. His skills, and those of his students, speak for themselves.
When I lived in Arlington I used to work at NovaMMA for Jeff Ruth. I trained and competed with the guys there and had the chance on several occasions to roll with Lloyd. If you still don't think he is legit, go try it yourself. I had never been so confused on the mat as when rolling with Lloyd. One second I felt I had an upper hand, only to be armlocked .5 seconds later and asking myself WTF?
As for the high rate on privates, it's because he doesn't care to do them not that he's an egomaniac like people claim. If you don't like him and his approach, fine. But take it from someone who worked, trained and competed there it's the real deal. Also, if you are in Arlington hit up Jeff Ruth's gym, great training and I still miss the place.
People want to hate on Master Lloyd... but the man is just trying to make a good living for himself and his family. It's not like he's a snake-oil salesman.
In fact, since L.I.'s marketing is so successful, we should instead be appreciating him for bringing more people into the BJJ community and helping a ton of people achieve their self-defense and fitness goals. Think of all the great competitors that Lloyd Irvin has created, and now think about how these competitors have raised the level of competition in the world, thus making us ALL better. Think about it.
Unfortunately his marketing style is not a reflection on his own values, but rather a reflection on the average american's values and their ability to be motivated to take up this kind of activity.
I don't see why it's so hard for people to accept that you can be both legit and successful in the martial arts business, as if these two things are mutually exclusive. Instead of tearing these schools down, maybe you should be taking notes.
Lloyds skills are not a question here.
TTT
"What is your net worth?
I would be willing to bet Lloyd quadruples yours. So what makes you expert enough to call what he is doing a scam?
Just wondering what your credentials are."
LOL, just because someone amasses a metric shitton of cash, doesn't mean they're not scamming people (or that they're an expert on who is a charlatan, and who's not) And it doesn't excuse them from using psychologically manipulative and dishonest marketing tactics. There is an excellent survey of these kind of tactics in a book by Cialdini (a professor of Marketing) called "Influence". I recommend it highly.
"Unfortunately his marketing style is not a reflection on his own values, but rather a reflection on the average american's values and their ability to be motivated to take up this kind of activity."
Actually, it is a reflection of his values. You see, your actions reflect your values. They show the world exactly what the ramifications and implications of your value system are. And to say that he gets a pass from criticism because it's the American way, well that's just a fucking copout. Straight up.
Master Lloyd is an incredible teacher. I've trained at TLI and have only good things to say about my experiences there. That being said, his infomercial, Carlton Sheets-level marketing tactics are morally reprehensible.
Master Lloyd is an incredible teacher. I've trained at TLI and have only good things to say about my experiences there. That being said, his infomercial, Carlton Sheets-level marketing tactics are morally reprehensible.
What, specifically, is morally reprehensible about them? I don't mean to argue, but I am curious because I don't share that perspective.
Yeah, obviously, millions of people don't find anything wrong with it, and probably think it's a pretty minor thing. I just think that it's akin to pure theft - maybe an extreme view - and I'm not saying Lloyd is sitting around, plotting, consciously trying to come up with ways to take money from people without giving them anything of substance in return. I'm sure his intentions are good. It's just that these sorts of psychological techniques (whether he realizes it or not) use normally automatic and helpful social behaviors and cues (that we constantly rely on to make quick decisions in life) to manipulate people into making decisions that are not in their best interest (without them even realizing it). It's a cynical way to operate, at best. My take is that it goes beyond cynicism and reaches the level of moral bankruptcy.
Great. You made my day.
TTT
I was surprised to see Travern put something like -"doesn't Lloyd give out black belts in like 2 weeks."
Lloyd always speaks very highly of Travern. I guess it's cool that Travern removed his post, but the fact that a high level guy is publically trying to take shots at Lloyd for something that is clearly wrong is weird.
Lloyd has never promoted anyone to black belt in 2 weeks. His fastest black belt promotion is in 4 years, it was Mike Fowler. What was the purpose of putting out a raw lie like that? It's cool though,i expect it from the normal haters, but for a high level black belt to do it with a blatent lie? Wow!
Just so you know Travern, Lloyd really looks up to you. If you're going to take shots at him, and don't like him for whatever reason, at least do it with real stuff. Leave the silly comments to the guys who haven't accomplished anything before.
Jim Kelly
www.nomoreneckproblems.com.
^^^agree 100%
ttt for Master Lloyd
Jim_Kelly - I was surprised to see Travern put something like -"doesn't Lloyd give out black belts in like 2 weeks."
Lloyd always speaks very highly of Travern. I guess it's cool that Travern removed his post, but the fact that a high level guy is publically trying to take shots at Lloyd for something that is clearly wrong is weird.
Lloyd has never promoted anyone to black belt in 2 weeks. His fastest black belt promotion is in 4 years, it was Mike Fowler. What was the purpose of putting out a raw lie like that? It's cool though,i expect it from the normal haters, but for a high level black belt to do it with a blatent lie? Wow!
Just so you know Travern, Lloyd really looks up to you. If you're going to take shots at him, and don't like him for whatever reason, at least do it with real stuff. Leave the silly comments to the guys who haven't accomplished anything before.
Jim Kelly
www.nomoreneckproblems.com.
travenbjj isn't travern, it's one of his students i believe.
i love people using Fowler's 4 year black belt as a way to put down Master Lloyd
i dont know if any of you have heard of ADCC or some guys named Renzo Gracie and Saulo Ribeiro
Then i apologize if that's the case. Then my comments should now be, "way to represent your instructor"!