Lytes Out - Deep Dive: UFC 1 Series: Ken "TWMDM" Shamrock

It was told that he literally called former teammates and instructed them to not hold back

The “miss” on my end was my presumption that even though the book was raw, that he was ok with it

  • when he shot it down, it eliminated an entire page of questions

I dabbled my toe in the water with his Pancrase fights and his response told me that he wasn’t willing to budge.

We had an hour and it had to include his plugs

It was a good interview, but will pale greatly in comparison to both Zane Frazier and Gerard Gordeau

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makes sense ken does not approve of this book
while reading it i was wondering why ken would let all that info out

Oh it was out there…

But the details and extent of it exceeded the rumors.

Quite an accomplishment having reality outdo the rumors lol.

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This is what I heard, and read IIRC.

He specifically “shot it down” to you directly?

.
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I wonder if it went too far that some of his family was embarrassed and hurt by it, and confronted him directly.

In that case I could see him backing away from an idea he had initially approved of.

With his new found faith and confessional tour – I would guess that he himself isn’t ashamed of coming to terms with his mistakes publicly.
But family being affected is a different thing, and that could make a difference.

Just speculating of course.

Guys like Royce Gracie, Dan Severn, and Chuck Liddell got like 4 page spreads in the UFC Encyclopedia IIRC.

Ken and Frank SHARE one page!

Sheesh…

Great Ep! Hope he comes back for future episodes. It’s insane that Ken competed in Pancrase on 11/8/1993 and 4 days later was competing in UFC 1 on 11/12/1993

Also was very interesting to hear Ken’s perspective on what we have heard so much of in the other episodes which is his style of hard training and initiating people in to the team. Beating people down to build them back up again. Sounds brutal but I can get what he is saying for that era because people were so stubborn on what worked and what didn’t that sometimes you had to have it beaten in to you. And THEN you could learn lol.

Another interesting perspective was his pull out of UFC 3 and while I wish he would’ve just stepped in to the Finals regardless if Royce was or wasn’t there, after hearing him talk about how just how much he lost his motivation that night and made it clear that he only wanted him then it does help make more sense of it. And he ended up getting Royce again a couple events later and said the money or title didn’t mean much to him cause he was already a Champion in Pancrase so he got what he wanted in the end. Still wish he would’ve fought the Finals but I understand his reasoning more now.

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interesting

Monday and Thursday

Zane Frazier

Legit crazy person that tells great stories

After that Gordeau

  • this lived up to the hype
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I need to find those fights like that 300 lb woman fighting an old guy at Mark Hall’s promotion

And nice introduction for Ken by your cohost Joey but Ken no sold it and didn’t even react lol

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Nevermind just heard the part at about 51 minutes where he talks about it.

Seems to me he’s saying most of it is true including the juicy stuff but he just had issues with a couple details.

Also sounds like Snowden kind of made a mistake there – at least from Ken’s perspective.
Too bad because a book as good as that you would like the have the subject’s full endorsement.

I would still consider what Ken said at least a partial endorsement, and a full endorsement of the “juicy stuff” lol.

IMO his response was kind of like responding without responding.
Saying that it was business and he wouldn’t get into it is IMO similar to Coleman saying he had to feed his family RE Takada.
“Business” being the key word from Ken there.

Also, I have a feeling a little more of a response about the Pancrase stuff will come from Ken in the future.
Just a hunch.

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I’ve heard Ken repeat that reasoning for years.
And while I do get it – from a legacy perspective, you go in there and heel-hook Howard without breaking a sweat – and get the UFC tournament victory under your belt.

Then again, Ken probably wasn’t thinking people on the Internet would be holding that against his “legacy” 30 years later.
After all, he did prove he was straight-up better than guys who won UFC tournaments.

My big takeaway from this episode, is the idea that Ken pulling out helped realize the Superfight between him and Royce.
I don’t recall thinking about it from that specific angle before.
Interesting.

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On the Coleman training thing…

IIRC in the Snowden book either Ken or one of his students said Coleman couldn’t take him down.
I don’t recall hearing that Ken took Coleman down.

The story I’m most familiar with is Coleman dropping Ken with a punch – and Ken got pissed and got up and knocked Coleman out.

To be a fly on the wall for that one…

I trained with him in San Diego and they conditioned the fuck out of us before the training. I was in great shape and thought I might die. Ken was pretty aloof but his guys were all cool.

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I’m about halfway through. Ken comes off really well in this interview. Nice job.

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I’ve only listened to a little bit so far,but Ken says that one of the rules was no tape?

image

iirc bohlander and/or bessac covered this one
said “it wasnt even close”
of course, coleman says he dominated

valid point u r making

also: no shoes

b0c5f15ffe148d54296dc692924c244f38a79865

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These don’t look like full tape jobs.

Also doesn’t look like “no tape”