One more sidenote and to clarify my view. This appraoch (day of grouped weight classes)is done to match up those female athletes closest in size. If that means only 4 athletes so be it. Having 3 matches in a round robin draw ain't so bad...a little more than in a single elimination bracket draw. If that means 16 athlete even better. But lets allow an athletes skill determine the outcome not weight differences.
GC : )
Kashk is correct.
Don't worry about superimposing logic, but listen to Jiuchick.
If you don't announce weight classes, in addition to it being mistaken for disrespect, it signals you aren't expecting many women yourself, and if you're not expecting many women, the women will pick up on that, won't expect it either, and are less likely to attend (especially long distance).
I think rene r. just hit the nail on the head with the idea that lack of set weight classes signals a lack of expectation on the part of the promoters. Another issue is that many women train just for fun, it's a hobby, they aren't necessarily thinking that the experience they get competing here will help them with the next tourney. A lot of guys are like that too.
Regarding weight categories for women: Something stinks here. Who’s being protected by these peculiar weight divisions? I fought Judy Neff in my first pro fight , I didn’t worry about her record, and I am still the only woman to go the distance with her. I fought Angela Wilson who was half my age (she was 22 years old when I was 44.) Pete won the NAGA Worlds weighing in at 206 lbs. and tapped his opponent who weighed 298 lbs. Hate to break it to you some of you people writing in, but tournaments are about learning. You gain valuable experiences when you compete. It’s not about fixing a weight category that happens to correspond to your own weight under the pretext of having your finger on the pulse of the world of female fighters.
No offense, but Pete was very polite in his email. He isn’t a “dude”. He was on the women’s fight scene before there was a “scene”. He fought for women’s divisions and women’s representation in grappling and MMA long before we finally broke into the mainstream and even before Jeff Osborne gave us such great recognition with his all-women’s shows, Revolution and Evolution. (Jeff, I love ‘ya although I doubt you read these things either.)
Yale, excuse me but who are you? I think I remember you from some local tournament, but if you are “the scene” I think I’d better let Debbie Purcell, and Erin Toehill, Judy Neff, and Tara Larosa know about you because we didn’t realize you were “the scene”.
Mark, I remember you from when we rolled in Montreal when Wagne was teaching there. Good luck with this tournament. I’m sure it’ll be a good one. In spite of the uninformed rhetoric that is appearing on this site. Frankly, I rarely bother reading this drivel. I’ve always thought it was a magnet for wanna be’s. The rest of us are too busy training.
If you are female, and you want to promote female participation in this sport, please just jump in. Compete, do your best, learn, train hard. There aren’t too many women competitors, so you will have to make do with weight and/or experience categories that may not be particularly appealing to you nor correspond to your own perception of an ideal world.
Hate to say it, but now I understand why our team usually competes at NAGA events. Kipp Kollar snuffs out this foolishness before it gains any momentum.
-Tanya Vlahac
Ms. Vlahac, please read the posts more carefully. Yael never claimed to be the scene, rene r. made that assertion, and this is a BJJ and Sub grappling event not mma. Yael herself is planning to compete anyway, and won the womens absolute at the Gracie Nationals this past fall. She is not talking about this for her own benifit. As a person who has reffed women's divisions, taught women only BJJ classes, etc I have learned that the gals and the guys often think a like. A lot of guys who compete now, would not do so if their weight class was 160 pounds and up. People, such as myself, honestly believe that more women would come out of the wood work to compete if there were more weight classes. Once you draw as many women as possible to the event you can determine whether or not those weight classes make sense on the day of competition. Also, not everyone competes for the same reasons you do. Many want to compete in an environment where they have a reasonable chance of success, and won't get crushed by a much larger opponent. Your "wannabe" comment is really funny, and off topic, considering that Prof. Wagnney Fabiano shares the same concerns that Yael and I do. As a second degree Black Belt (soon to be third),2005 ADCC Brasil trials champion,TKO SLW World Champion, who has won too many BJJ titles to count, with over 25 years experience in competition, etc he somehow arrives at a similar conclusion as the rest of us authors of drivel. Wagnney would not want Yael competing against much heavier competitors (he does not forbid it), the fact that Yael continues to compete in absolute tournaments suggests that your insinuation about weight class fixing for personal gain is off-base.
Ms. Vlahac are you competing at the GTA?
TTT for lightweight divisions!
If you think about it properly, there are several brackets for men with only 3 or 4 competitors, depending on weigth and age. What is the problem in having a small bracket for women?
"Yale, excuse me but who are you? I think I remember you from some local tournament, but if you are “the scene” I think I’d better let Debbie Purcell, and Erin Toehill, Judy Neff, and Tara Larosa know about you because we didn’t realize you were “the scene”."
Hi Tanya, I don't remember meeting you but I'm sure ther's a good chance we've met at some tourny here or in the states. I don't come on here to talk shit or make enemies, so what's with the attitude? I never insinuated that i was 'the scene' in fact i'm sure bjj would be just fine without me. And if somehow you got the impression that i did say that, I'm still not sure what debbie, erin, tara, etc. have to do with anything since we're discussing bjj/sub wrestling, not mma.
Anyways are you gona be at GTA? Competing at all? The more the merrier, hope to be able to meet you in person there.
cheers,
yael
Hi everyone,
Donna, I agree.. I am all for any division that can get enough competitors to support it.
My original post had to do with where to draw the line. If you are concerned with rolling with people that are a lot heavier than you.. Why would you have 115, 128 (Only 13 lbs heavier) and than over 128. I know for sure that most women in Canada walk around at over 128 lbs. The logistic just don't make sense.
Unless you weigh 114! :-)
If you have 3 divisions you should have 33% of the competitors in each weight class. If you have two divisions you should have 50%...etc.
If it is unreasonable for someone who weighs 114 to fight someone 14 lbs heavier, what happens to the 129 pounder who would have to fight someone 20 lbs heavier than them?
Can I talk about what is most important?
Can we all agree on one thing?
Let's support this tournament!!!!!!!
Whatever the weight categories.
Take care,
Pete.
P.S. I'll be there, I hope to see everyone else there also. Yael, Kashk and Rene.r stop and say hi. Yael.. I can't wait to see you fight again... Good luck! Kashk and Rene.r, it would be nice to put a face to the name. Take care everyone.
(Edited for spelling... I suck at english!)
HI PETE!!!! I totally remember you and your student..you two were awesome, I am looking forward to seeing you again..is she gona fight? (sorry i forgot her name).
Yes you are right that it would be unfair to do something like 120 and under and then have the girls at 130 fight women who are 20, 30 lbs heavier. I think events like Grapplers Quest have it right, this is their womens' divisions: Class A: 119.9 lbs. and below Class B: 120 - 134.9 lbs.
Class C: 135 – 149.9 lbs.
Class D: 150 lbs. and over
Women’s Absolute (Open Weight)
I am not agaainst pooling women together if there are not enough in a division. In fact, at the gracie nationals in Oct. there were only 4 women blues, but 2 of us were in the lighter division and the other 2 were in the heavier division. Three women, including me wanted to pool the 2 divisions together to get more fights, but one of the heavier women didn't want to. BUT, I think rene r. and kashk are totally right by saying that promoters should at least anounce divisions and if need be, pool them together the day of. I guess it's just the principle but I totally think it's more respectful AND motivating to see a list of women's divisions, rather than just being told that "we'll see what happens".
Either way, I just hope women come out to play!!
see you all in 2 weeks :)
yael
Kashk and Jiuchick remain correct.
Hi Yael,
Tanya here. Thanks for your post. And you’re right, I re-read the posts, and you never made the “scene” comment, it was Rene R., so my apologies to you.
Believe it or not, I think the way this thread is heading (now) is great. Weight divisions as you suggested from Grappler’s Quest make sense (for a big turnout); pooling the group and making a call the day of the event will also make sense if there is a small turnout.
Sometimes you have to stir the pot. I smelled a rat, and, as anyone who knows me will tell you, I’m not known for being subtle. I also have tremendous respect for Pete Tremblay and, as you know because you have met him, he is classy, fair, and a martial artist through-and-through. Yael, would you refer to him as, “Dude”? I don’t think so! It got me going. Pete has been there from the very beginning for female fighters – and, he’s been my coach for over 10 years. At Wagnney’s tournament in Montreal it was Pete who fought to have a division for the women. I’m a fighter, and when I get mad, well…I guess my first reaction is to fight.
Anyway, thanks for your attention to this thread and for your thoughts. I’ll see you at the tournament. Best of luck to everyone, and for any female who is still on the fence, PLEASE just show up and participate. You can’t beat experience. Be real. Forget the excuses, forget the fears. Don’t just talk about grappling – do it!!! Win, lose, sweat, give it your all. No one will care in two years if you fight and lose or fight and win. But the experiences you take away will be yours forever, and the lessons you learn will benefit your athletic career and maybe even other aspects of your life as well.
Smiling,
Tanya Vlahac
see this is what bjj is all about...positive vibes! Thanks for apologizing tanya and i will see you soon.
I hope everyone encourages the women at their clubs to come out to compete.
smiling also:) yael
Nice.
ttt
ttt