I would totally agree with you.
I will be persuing the Criminal code amendment.
1)Because that is a direction that I can work in while others can work in Ontario and I can't mess up what they are working towards.
2)Because I have always wanted to see how a law gets changed.
rene r said:
"Quebec is under the Canadian Criminal Code, and allows MMA.
see, not so simple... "
Exactly. I asked Ken this exact question,
MA: "how can Quebec allow MMA if section 83 is worded as is?"
KH: "they perhaps open themselves up to liability by doing so."
MA: "so in essence, anyone who sanctions MMA in Canada is in contradiction to s83 and thus guily of a criminal offence. Correct?"
KH: "I don't know but who's going to charge them? You'd have to get yourself a lawyer I guess to argue about that."
MA: "why can't Ontario do what Quebec is doing?"
KH: "I've contacted our legal dep't and they've stated that we cannot make changes to the Athletics Control Act until the wording in section 83 is changed".
MA: "Is there anything one can do to try and change the minds of the Ontario gov't on this?"
KH: "I don't know, it's not up to me".
MA: "Who would you suggest I contact?"
KH: "You'd have to lobby the gov't. I am not able to advise the best way to do that."
MA: "So in essence, you are only responsible for ensuring the Athletics Control Act is adhered to. You are not responsible for changing it. Correct."
KH: "Yes, exactly."
MA: "May I ask what your opinion is of MMA or is that not even relevant."
KH: "Exactly, I'm completely indifferent. If the province chose to allow MMA tomorrow I'd be fine with it."
.....cont'd
So it appears as though Ontario that won't take on the liability. But, do we now try and go the federal route? I think that's last resort. I think we can still try and pursue the provincial route for now. I've been in back and forth contact with members of The Ministry of Consumer and Business Services and The Ministry of Tourism and Recreation in an effort to conclude what the best course of action will be.
More info to come...
Dougie:
Ontario Gov't Bill to Law
http://www.ontla.on.ca/library/billsresources/govbill.pdf
Federal website:
The federal process is essentially the same.
You've got two choices. You can either go though a private member's bill or a gov't bill. To initiate the private member's bill you must get your local MP to write the gov't on your behalf. Chances of getting your MP to agree to do this are better then lobbying the gov't directly but the chances of a private member bill passing are slim. They also take much longer to process.
wow, that's good info Marco. Thanks, and keep it up :P
LOL!
I will be working on the federal stuff. Mostly because there are already people working provincially, and I don't want to step on their toes.
Not that I will be able to do much federally but it'll be a start. Like a stone in the shoe of the gov't.
Last time a thread was up like this I mentioned that someone should contact Silvermen helps at City TV. I think media intervention is needed here. Just a suggestion and if I had the time that`s what I would do. I would love to see mma in Ontario before I die.
Sub Grappling recieves sanctioning, and is not named specifically by the Athletic Control Act. All it needs is a sanctioning body recognized by the OAC. That is where the real hurdle to clear is. I am not saying that one shouldn't pursue legal changes. But I would suggest that indifference to mma on the part of the OAC does not exist at this time.
Any shows I worked on in Quebec were title "Mixed Boxing " by the commish...hmmm
Pete
Sub grappling is sanctioned by the CJA is it not?
Good luck Dougie!!!!!
Pete said:
"Any shows I worked on in Quebec were title "Mixed Boxing " by the commish...hmmm "
Exactly. And the reason why they are termed as such is that section 83 of the criminal code says "boxing". Therefore, that is their attempt to stay close in appearance to that description.
I believe the allowed sub grappling is amateur, not professional, which is how it can be sanctioned by a body like CJA.
I find it coincendental that you are pulling this stuff of knowing that I have the meeting with the legal firm TONIGHT.
Yes Antico, the same firm you fully know about that is willing to help out in the cause.
Yes Antico, the same firm, the same meeting, the same information I gave to you in September of 2004 at Apex.
Funny how you are doing all of this stuff a few days in advance of my meeting.
Many people ALREADY KNOW THAT AFTER THIS MEETING it will hopefully create a blueprint for many of us to follow. You are 10 years behind scheduele Marco.
How was I suppose to know when your meeting was? Can you please explain that to me?
I emailed 2 days ago kindly asking to have a short conversation with you. I told you I wanted to write and article for IF.com explaining the obstacles in MMA. Since, many consider you the authority on the subject I thought it important to discuss this with you. Those were my exact words!
You rudely responded to me as always. So I made a pro-active decision to make my best effort in helping legalize the sport.
I do remember you speaking about a meeting back at APEX. That meeting got rescheduled from September to October per you. Then it got postponed again 'till late fall. Now you say it's happening tonight. You sure about that?
You know what? I wish you nothing but all the luck in the world. I don't give a shit about who gets MMA legalized! If you do it, great! THIS IS NOT A COMPETITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The difference between us is that I choose NOT to do my work behind closed doors.
Ask yourself one question. Why do you feel the need to put what I'm doing down? Careful, the answer to that question may cause you to lose sleep at night.
Later,
Marco
Grabs popcorn and gets a comfy chair
Marco, you're out for personal glory, looking to get yourself a big old pat on the back and be the saviour of MMA in this province. Like a fucking superhero. If that's the complex you're working with, go put on some spandex and a cape and run around High Park instead of fucking with stuff you're not qualified (or educated enough) to fuck with.
My 'rude' response to you was simple. Allow me to copy and paste it from the 'original e-mail' I sent to you:
'I do not want to be included in your story. Please do not use my name in any of your future 'articles.'
Later, YOU, your highness responded with:
"Joe, please respond to my email. If not, I'm going to have no choice but to say "Joe Ferraro refused to comment upon his understanding of Canadian Law and what he was doing to change that law". Do you want me to say that?"
Marco...you are a joke. That is my opinion. You need to take a PR course. You need to take some sort of 'Social Skills' or 'People Skills' course. You need to learn the in's and out's of business and about public relations. You need to learn that life is not measured by what happens on this forum, but what happens outside of this forum.
Do you have any idea how many people READ this forum vs. how many people POST on this forum? Do you have any idea what I do for MMA outside of this forum? Do you have any clue how many MMA projects I work on outside of this forum?
Do you have ANY IDEA how much of a circus clown you have made yourself to be in the eyes of those that truely matter in this sport? NO, YOU DO NOT...BECAUSE YOU ARE A DELUSIONAL YOUNG MAN.
You came on the scene trying to play with the big boys, yet you completely paid no attention to the rules; THE RULES OF THE GAME are simple. Respect those that have been around much longer than you. Understand there are people who NEVER post here yet have done more for MMA and Grappling in the past 5 hours than you have since you arrived in your HOLY STUPIDMOBILE. You are your own puppet...go play with your strings and leave the real people to do the real work.
I rarely respond to you on this forum, but my nerves are shot because I am under immense pressure to do well at this meeting. I have not been this nervous about something in a very long time. I am trying to sell MMA to a very powerful group who has more pull on the political scene than HAYASHI ever will. There is a game I play which you have never heard of and will never understand Marco.
Go do a 'Getting to know interview with Hayashi' or 'Bugs Bunny', but if you get the chance, I recommend you do like Michael Jackson and 'Beat it'.
Zero Respect For You,
Joe Ferraro
P.S. What you said to Dougie over e-mail was pathetic. You are a sad, sad human being.
"Marco, you're out for personal glory, looking to get yourself a big old pat on the back and be the saviour of MMA in this province. Like a fucking superhero. If that's the complex you're working with, go put on some spandex and a cape and run around High Park instead of fucking with stuff you're not qualified (or educated enough) to fuck with."
LOL! Three times over the last 2 days I almost wrote the exact same thing (minus curse words :)
Marco,
I've done what I suggested that YOU should've done when we
spoke on the phone last month. I stayed away from the forum
and all of the drama surrounding it to let things "tide over" but
upon my return today, I noticed that you haven't gone anywhere
and the drama continues. Let me explain something to you in an
analogy that even you can/should understand.
Let's take the game of Soccer for example, a game you, myself
and Joe have played likely since we were 4 years old.
If your "star" player is on a breakaway with 60 seconds left in the
game, and he's just passed mid-field and is approaching the
defenders of the opposing team during a 1-1 tie game, why
would YOU (A defenceman on the other side of the field...) run up
past the center line to take the ball away from the "star" player to
try and score the goal yourself ?
Are you an idiot ? Let the "star" player take the ball in for the goal
himself, he did all the work to get to this point, why would you try
to come in with a half-assed attempt to score when you know you
have ZERO chance of doing so ?
Joe has worked on this proposal long before you were even a fan
of this sport, anything that YOU do at this point will only discredit
and hinder the work he's done/is doing for the sport. His name is
well known throughout the sport, he's met everyone you can
possibly imagine to help further the sport, and frankly, you have
nothing to offer in terms of helping this cause. You've continued
to ignore what I said about staying away for awhile and letting
things tide over, instead deciding to stay here and make up for
your mistakes with MORE mistakes and defensive arguing.
Joe has the ball, and he's the star player on this team about to go
in for the goal, trying to take it away from him, will ensure we lose
the game.
Stay out of this Marco, just enjoy the victory when it's all over, but
stay out of the game until the final whistle blows.
J.T.McCarthy