MMA Underground Forums

My Mistake...

Kneeblock - 


The posters above such as Blazing Knees, talkischeap and nfamma have either drank the kool-aid so thoroughly or are actual Zuffa interns/employees. 



Whenever a person starts talking about workers campaigning to have their rights defended, look for people like these to come out of the woodwork and start casting aspersions on the organizer's character. And when you look, you'll likely see a trail of money leading to their doorstep.



Really, to compare the millions Zuffa invested to the actual physical harm fighters have exposed themselves to is absurd. The fighters built this sport, not the marketers.



 



Neither assumption is correct for me. At one time, I had Nate Quarry as a FB fren years before I dreamed this crap would go down----Why did I seek him out and send a fren request?>Because I admired his courage and preserverance to overcome many obsticles in his life and live is dreams. I've started at least a couple support threads on here for his upcoming fights and was sincerely sorry to watch the Rivera fight when Nate's cheekbone quit working but his heart and courage never did.



Theology is one of my fav subjects-I'm well versed on nearly all of the worlds different religions and 'cults' I'm openminded and curious. Nate grew up in what I consider a 'dangerous' religious enviroment that can best be described as a cult. The JW are no joke-no birthdays-no holidays-no sports-repressive beyond any scope of normalcy-and devoid of any reproach. For a young man who never was allowed to even so much as throw a baseball because if would piss God off--- yet rise to fight for a championship  is simply amazing. 



I remain a fan of Nate Quarry-However,



I'm not so sure of the motivation of this 'controversy' has been thouroughly discussed as there is no end game IMO. Does this have anything to do with relevancy or lack thereof? On simply a moral equation, I side with the facts that I've stated in other threads and this one, that it's simply not true that the UFC doesn't care about it's fighters and I provided many examples to support those FACTS. This is not an emotional issue for me and regardless of my respect and admiration for Nate, I'm going to voice my opinion as I see fit.



 



The very title of this thread says a lot. Sometimes we all make emotional rants based on the many emotional factors in our own lives. I had a drunken meltdown on here after a long night of drinking and a big fight with my girl--shit happens. I'm sure a small part of Nate wishes this whole Frankenstein that's been created would go away now-there's a chance it may tarnish his legacy, time will tell and enough time passing will let people forget this thread and what it was about, one day.



It's nice to be in the limelight, it's hard to live without it when it's gone. Broken and unrequited dreams don't neccesarily die, they sometimes manifest themselves in misguided actions----and I think this is one of those times. If I had anything to say to Nate, it would be this; Move on brother, chase the rest of your dreams and let this shit go in the past where it belongs. Be grateful and gracious-- and Godspeed.



 

Ttt Phone Post 3.0

CindyO/Dana, you've made some sort of error. I'm not looking to join a fighter's association. I'm looking to explain how one works.

Nate 'Rock' Quarry - Let me state that I had the numbers wrong for my fight against Franklin. I swear I thought the gate was 3.5 million. It's been pointed out to me that the gate was about 2 million. The PPV buys about 200k. But we really don't know for sure because that information is not disclosed.
How much did I make? $10,000. But that number is NOT important. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, I should have negotiated a better deal. I should have negotiated like Randy did so I would have the rights to use my fight photos and videos.
But I didn't. Water under the bridge.
None of that is important. My last fight I was paid around 40k. Although I took a horrendous beating that took months to heal from and now have 13 screws and titanium in my face, I think I was paid very well for that fight.
Then why did I speak up in the first place? To change the past? To speak about low pay from 8 years ago? No, no I didn't.
I'm trying to address issues that are occurring right now with fighters. The sponsorships being cut, the sponsorship tax, things like that. Things that will benefit the fighters without hurting the UFC.
So let's look at some individual issues and look at potential solutions so I don't come off as a total whiny little baby:
Fight Week: Fighters are given two flights, one hotel room and $50 per diem
I suggest: Give the fighter 3 flights and $100 per diem. The days of one cornerman are over. Fighters are taking money out of their purses to pay for the numerous coaches they have to fly in to deliver the best fight possible.
Hotel Gyms: Fighters are allowed to use the gym for free, their corner has to pay to use the hotel gym where the fighter is actually fighting.
I suggest: The fighter and up to 3 cornermen get to use the hotel gym for free. This would cost next to nothing and is one little thing that shows the fighter that they aren't being nickeled and dimed.
Sponsorships: This is completely random. The last time I was dealing with the UFC, clothing and supplement sponsors had to pay $100k for the privilege of having a fighter put their logo on the fighter's shorts. Random companies don't have to pay a fee.
I suggest: Remove the sponsorship tax. This is going to bring back a myriad of sponsors that want to support the fighters and can't afford to pay 100k to the UFC.
UFC uniform: This is speculative but it seems that the UFC is moving towards a uniform for fighters to wear out to fight in. This is going to kill the remaining sponsors. No longer will they have a shirt sponsor if everyone is wearing the same shirt. No more shorts sponsors if everyone is wearing the same pair of shorts.
I suggest: Kill this idea. If the UFC is unhappy with certain fighters wearing inappropriate shorts or shirts, punish THEM. Not every fighter in the UFC.
UFC fight contract: I may be wrong but I believe the minimum wage in the UFC is $6,000. It goes up from there. I've had agents tell me they are pushing for a 5 fight contract. Why? If you're fighter goes on a win streak he can't demand more money. If he loses, he gets cut.
I suggest: A three fight NO cut contract. This lets the fighter know that for one year they are UFC fighters. They can focus on fighting and that's it. The UFC is going to be more selective knowing that the guy they sign will be around for a year. This gives the fighter time to get over the Octagon jitters. And build a fan base because the fans know this guy will be around for at least a year. Right now guys come and go. So what difference does it make if you have one guy signed for three fights instead of three guys that are one and done?
Pay scale: Again, I could be wrong, but I believe the UFC minimum is 6k.
I suggest: Starting salary $10,000 to show, $5,000 win bonus. If you win, your next fight is $10/7.5. The third fight on your contract would be $10/10. For one year the fighter knows that they will be making a minimum of 30k.
"Don't talk about money!" That's the golden rule when it comes to athletes. The average person will think you're an ungrateful crybaby and the owners will think you're ungrateful for all they've done for you.
"You got paid to follow your dreams!" Sure did. And much like a painter who loves to paint and someone comes along and offers to sell their paintings and makes a mint off of them, the painter deserves his fair share.
"You're saying this over social media? You should be a man and say these things privately and face to face!" I did. Over many years. And I was labeled an asshole and not a company man. And if you're not a company man that means no appearances and no exposure from corporate. And social media is today's version of picketing outside the offices. I can reach millions of people that are in my key demographic of people I want to reach instead of wearing a sandwich board outside an office. I did complain about having to pay to use the gym at the Palms to help my fighter cut weight. I was told rather soundly that I was the only one complaining and to be quiet. I did complain about sponsors being charge a tax or not being able to thank sponsors after fights and got THE call, telling me to be quiet. I even went to the MMA "journalists" and was told the repercussions of doing a story on such things would result in passes being pulled.
Do I represent every fighter? Hell no.
Do I think the UFC deserves to make the lion's share of the money? Hell yes. They are the ones that invested millions of dollars and years worth of time. And they are continuing to grow, worldwide.
And the UFC wants to present itself as a professional organization with uniforms and codes of conduct. And yet with all that, there is no one representing the fighters and what they want and need.
If you know me you would know I'm for increasing the minimum wage to about $10 an hour. But not $15 an hour. The minimum wage in the NBA is about $470k. I'm suggesting the minimum wage in the UFC be about $30k. You may call it apples and oranges but we have to start somewhere.
Feel free to quote stats that make me look like an idiot. Point out how I fought for the title and got brutally KO'ed. All I'm doing is trying to help my fellow fighters and speak my opinion. I'm not representing anyone but myself. I can only speak from my own experiences.
And my experience with the UFC was amazing. I got to fight for the world title, man! And Dana personally decided to pay for my back surgery. Not too many other bosses would do that. Everything in my life besides my daughter has come from fighting. And I'd do it all over again.
Oh, I'm not trying to generate interest for a comeback on my part. I'm not trying to promote Bellator or get cut from the UFC so I can fight for them. I'm sharing MY experiences. Good AND bad. And when I see the fighters losing sponsorship dollars for no good reason, that's when I feel I need to speak up.
Honestly, I don't enjoy this. But I have this little voice inside my head that won't let me sleep unless it gets its chance to talk.
Thank you all
Well said Nate and not to be a total ass-kisser you were one of my favorite fighter from the first TUF season. Never in a boring fight(besides the Starnes fight which wasn't your fault) and always brought it. Ass kissing over, you made a comment about coming out of retirement and trying to get fired by the UFC. Does that mean you are still under contract with the UFC and are you planning to come out of retirement? Phone Post 3.0

Wow what an improvement by the UFC. When they were 40 million in the hole they could only pay a title challenger 10k. Now that they have an estimated worth of over 2 billion they are able to pay 16k to challenge for a title! The fighters should be so thankful. What's the new excuse for Sarah's pay? Phone Post 3.0

Nate 'Rock' Quarry - Let me state that I had the numbers wrong for my fight against Franklin. I swear I thought the gate was 3.5 million. It's been pointed out to me that the gate was about 2 million. The PPV buys about 200k. But we really don't know for sure because that information is not disclosed.
How much did I make? $10,000. But that number is NOT important. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, I should have negotiated a better deal. I should have negotiated like Randy did so I would have the rights to use my fight photos and videos.
But I didn't. Water under the bridge.
None of that is important. My last fight I was paid around 40k. Although I took a horrendous beating that took months to heal from and now have 13 screws and titanium in my face, I think I was paid very well for that fight.
Then why did I speak up in the first place? To change the past? To speak about low pay from 8 years ago? No, no I didn't.
I'm trying to address issues that are occurring right now with fighters. The sponsorships being cut, the sponsorship tax, things like that. Things that will benefit the fighters without hurting the UFC.
So let's look at some individual issues and look at potential solutions so I don't come off as a total whiny little baby:
Fight Week: Fighters are given two flights, one hotel room and $50 per diem
I suggest: Give the fighter 3 flights and $100 per diem. The days of one cornerman are over. Fighters are taking money out of their purses to pay for the numerous coaches they have to fly in to deliver the best fight possible.
Hotel Gyms: Fighters are allowed to use the gym for free, their corner has to pay to use the hotel gym where the fighter is actually fighting.
I suggest: The fighter and up to 3 cornermen get to use the hotel gym for free. This would cost next to nothing and is one little thing that shows the fighter that they aren't being nickeled and dimed.
Sponsorships: This is completely random. The last time I was dealing with the UFC, clothing and supplement sponsors had to pay $100k for the privilege of having a fighter put their logo on the fighter's shorts. Random companies don't have to pay a fee.
I suggest: Remove the sponsorship tax. This is going to bring back a myriad of sponsors that want to support the fighters and can't afford to pay 100k to the UFC.
UFC uniform: This is speculative but it seems that the UFC is moving towards a uniform for fighters to wear out to fight in. This is going to kill the remaining sponsors. No longer will they have a shirt sponsor if everyone is wearing the same shirt. No more shorts sponsors if everyone is wearing the same pair of shorts.
I suggest: Kill this idea. If the UFC is unhappy with certain fighters wearing inappropriate shorts or shirts, punish THEM. Not every fighter in the UFC.
UFC fight contract: I may be wrong but I believe the minimum wage in the UFC is $6,000. It goes up from there. I've had agents tell me they are pushing for a 5 fight contract. Why? If you're fighter goes on a win streak he can't demand more money. If he loses, he gets cut.
I suggest: A three fight NO cut contract. This lets the fighter know that for one year they are UFC fighters. They can focus on fighting and that's it. The UFC is going to be more selective knowing that the guy they sign will be around for a year. This gives the fighter time to get over the Octagon jitters. And build a fan base because the fans know this guy will be around for at least a year. Right now guys come and go. So what difference does it make if you have one guy signed for three fights instead of three guys that are one and done?
Pay scale: Again, I could be wrong, but I believe the UFC minimum is 6k.
I suggest: Starting salary $10,000 to show, $5,000 win bonus. If you win, your next fight is $10/7.5. The third fight on your contract would be $10/10. For one year the fighter knows that they will be making a minimum of 30k.
"Don't talk about money!" That's the golden rule when it comes to athletes. The average person will think you're an ungrateful crybaby and the owners will think you're ungrateful for all they've done for you.
"You got paid to follow your dreams!" Sure did. And much like a painter who loves to paint and someone comes along and offers to sell their paintings and makes a mint off of them, the painter deserves his fair share.
"You're saying this over social media? You should be a man and say these things privately and face to face!" I did. Over many years. And I was labeled an asshole and not a company man. And if you're not a company man that means no appearances and no exposure from corporate. And social media is today's version of picketing outside the offices. I can reach millions of people that are in my key demographic of people I want to reach instead of wearing a sandwich board outside an office. I did complain about having to pay to use the gym at the Palms to help my fighter cut weight. I was told rather soundly that I was the only one complaining and to be quiet. I did complain about sponsors being charge a tax or not being able to thank sponsors after fights and got THE call, telling me to be quiet. I even went to the MMA "journalists" and was told the repercussions of doing a story on such things would result in passes being pulled.
Do I represent every fighter? Hell no.
Do I think the UFC deserves to make the lion's share of the money? Hell yes. They are the ones that invested millions of dollars and years worth of time. And they are continuing to grow, worldwide.
And the UFC wants to present itself as a professional organization with uniforms and codes of conduct. And yet with all that, there is no one representing the fighters and what they want and need.
If you know me you would know I'm for increasing the minimum wage to about $10 an hour. But not $15 an hour. The minimum wage in the NBA is about $470k. I'm suggesting the minimum wage in the UFC be about $30k. You may call it apples and oranges but we have to start somewhere.
Feel free to quote stats that make me look like an idiot. Point out how I fought for the title and got brutally KO'ed. All I'm doing is trying to help my fellow fighters and speak my opinion. I'm not representing anyone but myself. I can only speak from my own experiences.
And my experience with the UFC was amazing. I got to fight for the world title, man! And Dana personally decided to pay for my back surgery. Not too many other bosses would do that. Everything in my life besides my daughter has come from fighting. And I'd do it all over again.
Oh, I'm not trying to generate interest for a comeback on my part. I'm not trying to promote Bellator or get cut from the UFC so I can fight for them. I'm sharing MY experiences. Good AND bad. And when I see the fighters losing sponsorship dollars for no good reason, that's when I feel I need to speak up.
Honestly, I don't enjoy this. But I have this little voice inside my head that won't let me sleep unless it gets its chance to talk.
Thank you all


Great post

Hammerstein - 


With this kind of backlash at someone that isn't even under the UFC's thumb any more, is it any wonder current fighters and managers can't/won't voice their opinion?  And then we're expected to take Zuffa's word on everything?


its shameful. And when their arguments are so full of holes and so transparent that they don't hold up, the next option is to pick a poster and attack them or their comments personally to try and derail the thread and drag it into a different direction.

Pitiful.

time traveling 12er - 
HarryPalms - 
Hammerstein - 


With this kind of backlash at someone that isn't even under the UFC's thumb any more, is it any wonder current fighters and managers can't/won't voice their opinion?  And then we're expected to take Zuffa's word on everything?


its shameful. And when their arguments are so full of holes and so transparent that they don't hold up, the next option is to pick a poster and attack them or their comments personally to try and derail the thread and drag it into a different direction.

Pitiful.


Pitiful?  You don't think it's pitiful when a guy shits on a company that paid for 100k work of medical expenses out of pocket?  Over what?  A sponsor tax he probably doesn't even understand?  It's a wonder Zuffa keeps going out of pocket to pay for medical bills when all they get in return is complaining and lack of gratitude. 


You are ridiculously off of what Quarry's comments are like.

CindyO - 
nobones - While Nate tries to come off as neutral and as objective as possible on a topic, he is actually a pretty emotional guy. Moreso than most 'normal' people but as far as fighters go he is pretty reserved. That is why he blurted out 'the UFC doesn't care about its fighters' when he himself knows that isn't true at all. The UFC has gone above and beyond to give him opportunities and to help him when he was in dire straits. Anyone that saw TUF 1 knows how much the UFC helped Nate out when his own coach injured him by being careless. And this pales in comparison to how much they helped Leben who also came out in the news lashing out at the UFC. Can you imagine what the UFC would be like if disloyal people like Nate and Chris ran it? Thankfully there is no fighter's union if people like Nate or Leben were to be in charge of it they would run everything into the ground. Phone Post 3.0


Can you imagine the amount of bitching the UG would be doing if they had to pay for cards full of guys the UFC can't cut if they suck, which is what St. Quarry thinks they should do with his 3 fight guarantee??? Even I would be bitching then.



They gave him an Ipod for Christmas and he talked shit about them. DW should have left his brokedown ass alone instead of spending $100,000 for him to get his back fixed, an injury he had his entire life, not one that he got while competing for the UFC. Its like, "Thanks for saving my ass when I had nothing but fuck you now because I have an agenda to keep, guys." Pfft.



 



Cindy



 


Wow. You are a real piece of garbage.

I think it's best just to let this thing die. The timing is all wrong, no matter how honest the intentions might be. I'm sure Nate is saying 'fuck this is not what I meant' and Dana and Lorenzo are saying 'what the fuck-we took care of this guy and now this'

 

When I'm thinking of this, I wonder just how much financial opportunity there was for the fighters before the UFC started reeling in sponsors/fighters. There were doors opened, celebrities met, hands shook and checks cashed and it was a free for all. In 2005-my first UFC event, the fighters shorts looked like NASCAR suits. I started noticing banners being hung behind fighters around 07 Ithink. The flood of MMA shirt companies, magazines, fight apparel and Mcdojo's cropping up everywhere was staggering and I'm sure some of the guys got paid big time.

 

I think it was right about the time that Brock said in front of millions, Bud light is for pussies and homos that the UFC  then said WTF-we own this mega company and we have 0 control over the sponsors and fighters? So what would you do if you ran or owned the UFC-let everyone run amok, doing whatever the fuck they want and the company we built gets nothing? lol prob don't have to tell you how that backroom conversation went~

I know for sure a LOT of guys from TUF1 are close to being millionares from their employment with the UFC. Guys are goiing to handle their money as they see fit. For every Josh Koschek and Stephan Bonnar who've done the smart thing with their money there is the polar  financial opposites like Leben. That's life, I still say move on, these issues will get handled, just not right now and not right here.

 

Martyrdom is fruitless...

 

Thacommish - "The timing is all wrong, no matter how honest the intentions might be."

After

"I'm not so sure of the motivation of this 'controversy' has been thouroughly discussed as there is no end game IMO. Does this have anything to do with relevancy or lack thereof?"

lol

 

-Stop trying to be cute because you're out of gas, fuckwad

 

In late Phone Post 3.0

qqq

no bones: It was pretty lame for Nate to say most of the things he said.

I don't feel bad for Leben at all. Not only was he a dick on TUF 1 he was a dick when I met him and he created his own problems. I know Nate is very close to Chris so I don't think it is a coincidence that Nate posted on here bashing the UFC a week after Chris tweeted that he would have rather been a truck driver than a fighter.

Nate then tried to apologize and take back some of the things he said but sorry damage done dude. Worst timing to go on the offensive on the UFC. Nate trying to take back or reinterpret what he meant by "The UFC doesn't care about its fighters" was bullshit because he meant for that to hurt.

--------------------------------

Cindy: Yep, that's how it looks to me as well. If Zuffa is such a shitty company then how come Nate went out of his way to try and land a job with them in December 2011??? He even created a thread on the UG asking for our support. Where was his rant when he made the thread?

"I want to be an on-air personality for the UFC"

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/?go=forum.versionCheck&thread=1915969&forum=1

From: Nate 'Rock' Quarry 
Posted: 12/1/11 12:32 PM
 
There I said it.
As I teeter on the brink of retirement I realize more and more how much I want to stay involved with the sport that's given me everything in my life. And I told Dana when I first signed with the UFC, I will never fight anywhere else. If the UFC cut me, that's it for me. It's because of the UFC and TUF that I've been able to provide for my daughter for the past 6 years. That's where I want to stay.
My qualifications (see link for these- had to cut them cuz post is too long)?
Do I have your support?
----------------------------------------------
 
A little over 2 months later he got the job with SpikeTV on MMA Unsensored. Folks thought DW/Zuffa would go apeshit about it so he had me post a message on the UG to Nate about his new opportunity since this is where the discussion was taking place:

"Attention UG re: Nate Quarry's new job w/SpikeTV"

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/?go=forum.versionCheck&thread=1970310&forum=1

"Everyone at the UFC loves Nate and are VERY happy for him getting this opportunity on Spike. If anyone deserves it, it's Nate!! And I like Straka!!!"
 
Nate responded on the thread (partial post-see link for entire comment):
 
"My understanding behind the scenes was that the president of Spike met with Dana and told him about me being a host and Dana said they picked the perfect guy.
 
My relationship isn't what it was with Dana 5 or 6 years ago. I don't have his phone number. We don't really communicate at all. And at times I've even been vocal that I felt some things that were being done weren't in the fighter's best interests. But I got to tell him face to face a while ago that what he and the Fertitas did changed my life and the life of my daughter. And I got to thank him.
 
I've always loved the UFC. One of the sad things was that 90% of my interaction with all the staff there was the week of my fight. And man, I'm in a bad mood that week. And most of them just don't understand it. For me fighting has never been a sport. It was my ticket out. And when you know that one single day in your life will drastically change everything for you, that's a little stressful. And any comments I ever made about the business side has always just been me reacting as an employee (in my mind at least) who wanted an extra day off or a small hourly raise.
 
But that's just human nature. And if I look at how I went from fighting for 10k for the title to having my show money on a fightnight being over 40k, I don't have much to complain about."
----------------------------------------------
 
LOL! Well, I guess his last sentence turned out NOT to be true.
 
(cont)
 

(cont to no bones):
 

They have always had his back, IMO, and even banned a sponsor from the UFC because they didn't pay Nate. He claimed they had his loyalty, too, in this March 2010 interview prior to his last UFC fight:
 
http://www.cagepotato.com/exclusive-nate-quarry-talks-back-surgery-sponsor-troubles-and-legend-rockhammer/
 

What do you do in that situation? I imagine it’s not enough money to be worth it for you to take him to court over it.

 

"Legally trying to take him to court and get paid, like I said, if he’s just a guy in his garage making t-shirts, most of these guys don’t really have any money to take. It doesn’t do any good to sue somebody with no money. Being vocal about it is the best you can do. And the UFC in this instance was very loyal to me and once I showed them proof that these promises were made and not kept, and that I had not been paid, they banned this company from the UFC until I get paid. That was a big thing to me that really earned my loyalty."

--------------------------------------------------

LOL! Well, I guess that last sentence turned out to NOT be true, either.

But I do wish him luck with scoring another job with Spike or Bellator like he told Crooklyn in their interview a week ago that he'd love to have. My guess is he simply hopped on the "trash the UFC" bandwagon with Bjorn and Bellator and didn't give a shhhhit about who he threw under the bus in hopes that it turns into something positive for him. What a GREAT guy to be willing to overlook ALL the shit he said is wrong with the UFC for an on-air job.

 

Cindy

 

What will change, until the fighters/managers decide to create structures or organizations that allow them to push back? As it is, they sign mostly any contract Bellator or the UFC puts in front of them with minor changes.

Asking the promoter to accept less money is a losing strategy. Why would the Fertittas or Viacom pay more and give up crucial leverage in negotiations by allowing the fighters to be financially self-sufficient for months or years at a time (thus forcing them to pay more next time around)? The FOX deal and other sponsorships would tank if Ronda or Jon Jones retired early or sought better fortunes elsewhere.

Let's all face it-- if you expect something from the UFC/Fertittas, you have to be prepared to give them something back. That might involve silence, endorsing their viewpoint/actions or criticizing common enemies.

It's how the game works, and you can't blame any MMA fighter for playing it to their (dis)advantage.

CindyO/Dana don't have to refute anyone's arguments. What they say is just the rationalization that backs up the way things currently are. And things won't change unless that change is forced by action.

Brian J DSouza - CindyO/Dana don't have to refute anyone's arguments. What they say is just the rationalization that backs up the way things currently are. And things won't change unless that change is forced by action.

Brian, is there something in particular about what I posted that you disagree with or would like to address? Or are you just trying to increase your post count?

Cindy Phone Post 3.0

Everybody that thinks the UFC has plenty of room for improvement must be wrong. Bash Nate all you want but his suggestions were not exactly wrong or unfair. Phone Post 3.0