My Mistake...

Thacommish - 
time traveling 12er - 
HarryPalms - 
Hammerstein - 


With this kind of backlash at someone that isn't even under the UFC's thumb any more, is it any wonder current fighters and managers can't/won't voice their opinion?  And then we're expected to take Zuffa's word on everything?


its shameful. And when their arguments are so full of holes and so transparent that they don't hold up, the next option is to pick a poster and attack them or their comments personally to try and derail the thread and drag it into a different direction.

Pitiful.


Pitiful?  You don't think it's pitiful when a guy shits on a company that paid for 100k work of medical expenses out of pocket?  Over what?  A sponsor tax he probably doesn't even understand?  It's a wonder Zuffa keeps going out of pocket to pay for medical bills when all they get in return is complaining and lack of gratitude. 


" the next option is to pick a poster and attack them or their comments personally"


"derail the thread and drag it into a different direction."

...like mentioning medical bills for a back surgery? Calling a guy pathetic? stuff like that right?

....and I give you Exhibit B.


So typical and transparent.




mrwhipple - 
CindyO - 
Brian J DSouza - CindyO/Dana don't have to refute anyone's arguments. What they say is just the rationalization that backs up the way things currently are. And things won't change unless that change is forced by action.

Brian, is there something in particular about what I posted that you disagree with or would like to address? Or are you just trying to increase your post count?

Cindy Phone Post 3.0

What he's referring to is the fact that you are ignoring the points Quarry raised and instead trying to divert attention by focusing on his motives. Fittingly, you do it again with this comment. I can do the same by reminding everyone that you have a close and personal history with Zuffa and are considered a shill by respected members of the media. The difference of course is my accusation has a lot more evidence to support it than yours.

Yep

time traveling 12er - 
JerodR - Everybody that thinks the UFC has plenty of room for improvement must be wrong. Bash Nate all you want but his suggestions were not exactly wrong or unfair. Phone Post 3.0


His suggestions being what?  Pay people more?  Let all the sponsors in?  He's making unrealistic suggestions like a kid running for school president.  Hey lets fill the water fountains with koolaid and ban homework!!  Of course the kids are going to cheer for him.



In an earlier article he complained about getting ripped off by some podunk t-shirt guy who wasn't even worth suing.  Hey... guess who can no longer afford to sponsor people in the UFC!?  He says it's a benefit to the UFC while only hurting fighters.  That's his opinion but I think he's wrong on that.  In the long run protecting your top sponsors is a good move and it will ultimately lead to bigger sponsors to the sport.  Bigger sponsors mean bigger pay outs for fighters.  Nate is suggesting going back to garage t-shirt shops and having fighters chase guys down on their own like he used to do.  That's a terrible idea imo.



Minimum yearly pay?  I'm not sure he's thought through the ramifications of his idea because there are lots of guys on the roster that are not worth 30k a year.  Guess what happens to them?  They lose their jobs.  You really think it's worth paying some local fill in guy 30k a year?  He mentions the minimum pay in the NBA is 540k but those are the guys that actually make the team.  Their bottom level guys in the NBA d-league get paid a minimum 14k and a max of around 28k. 



Also makes no sense for the UFC to institute an accross the board minimum pay.  There already exists the 8/8 at the moment, why would then put it in stone?  It just makes it harder to move if they want to.  The minimum already is 8/8, which comes out to 16k potentially.  He's actually suggesting they LOWER the minimum from a possible 16k to 15k.  You guys are cheering for a guy that wants to lower the minimum pay, think about that one. If he's suggesting more guranteed pay then that's up to the fighter isn't it?  Fighters have negotiated for less overall potential pay in exchange for more guranteed pay in the past.  He's suggesting everyone they moved to that scale?  What if guys would prefer to make more and take the risk?  He's suggesting they take control out of the fighters hands and make a standard scale?  Is that really better?



The no cut thing is just crazy.  Again there are very few fighters that are good enough warrant this type of thing.  You never know what's going to happen in this business so giving a guy a no cut contract is crazy unless the UFC is getting something major in return.  The UFC has paid guys big money anyways after several losses when they weren't worth it, so what will this fix really?   Like he said it's going to make the UFC selective and it's going to mean less opportunities for fighters out there.  That hurts fighters outside looking in doesn't it?  All this while solving what?  Making a few guys feel safe?  Removing the performance based aspect of their employment?  Is it ultimately worth it?



Extra tickets and rooms?  Wow,  I didn't realize this was such a big deal.  He's very generous with other peoples money saying it would be nothing to just add 22 plane tickets and hotel rooms and an extra 50$ per diem per show.  It's all got to come out of somewhere.  Also other fighters have negotiated for extra tickets and rooms before haven't they?  If it's that big a deal they can negotiate can't they?  My guess is that if they up it to three tickets lots of fighters girlfriends and buddys' are getting free flights.  If anything leave it two and allow fighters to ask for more if they can prove they need it.  Really if a fighter is not willing to pay for those guys to come out how important can they be?  I think it makes sense to maybe give something extra to guys that travel far though, that's got to be a bitch.  In the end though this whole suggestion boils down to "give everyone extra money."



The gym thing sounds reasonable but I have no idea how much hotels charge for gym access.  Is it a big deal?



The uniforms.  No one knows what this means or if it's going to happen.  It's pointless to complain about something that no one knows about.  He's creating a fiction then suggesting they fix a problem that he and others have created in their minds.  It's embarassing that he even commented on it.



All in all the suggestions aren't that good and boil down to the UFC spending more money to make fighters feel better.  Does any of this make the sport better?  Would Anderson Silva have been a greater fighter if he got more flights and a bigger per-diem?  Would Chuck Liddells run gone longer if they let his trainers into the hotel gym for free?  Are these the things that make MMA run?  Money has gone up, that can't be disputed.  Benefits have gone up.  All the while fans suggest the UFC is going down-hill and dying.  Yet somehow the UFC is at fault.  They complain about watered down cards then suggest that those fighters not worth watching for free should be paid more.  It's like everyone wants this great sport to die so they can have their little underdog show back.



On a final note, it was pretty dis-loyal to say anything close to "the UFC doesn't care about fighters" considering his past.  He can try to back-pedal and saying it was about some stupid sponsor tax or something, but in the end he said it and he has to live with it.  I hope it was worth it to him.



 


I'll boil all your bullshit down to this.

The UFC don't make a fucking cent if the fighters don't fight for them. NOBODY tunes in to hear Dana spewing his personal brand of bullshit, so they YES they should be paying close attention to this ever increasing list of iconic former fighters complaining about how they've been treated.

I have loved the UFC for many many years and do not want to see them fail due to the arrogance and greed of their executives, but they are not selling a product, they are getting rich of the talents and hard work of the fighters, and if those fighters were to walk out en masse (union, strike etc) then the UFC has FUCK ALL.

They should be giving very serious thought to the feedback they recieve and little muppets like you should stop being apologists for the machine, and start thinking about the fighters - I mean that is what you follow the sport for right? I can't recall you making a single post that wasn't pro-Zuffa that actually had relevence to fighters.

Shill.

*grabs popcorn and lube

time traveling 12er - 
JerodR - Everybody that thinks the UFC has plenty of room for improvement must be wrong. Bash Nate all you want but his suggestions were not exactly wrong or unfair. Phone Post 3.0


His suggestions being what?  Pay people more?  Let all the sponsors in?  He's making unrealistic suggestions like a kid running for school president.  Hey lets fill the water fountains with koolaid and ban homework!!  Of course the kids are going to cheer for him.



In an earlier article he complained about getting ripped off by some podunk t-shirt guy who wasn't even worth suing.  Hey... guess who can no longer afford to sponsor people in the UFC!?  He says it's a benefit to the UFC while only hurting fighters.  That's his opinion but I think he's wrong on that.  In the long run protecting your top sponsors is a good move and it will ultimately lead to bigger sponsors to the sport.  Bigger sponsors mean bigger pay outs for fighters.  Nate is suggesting going back to garage t-shirt shops and having fighters chase guys down on their own like he used to do.  That's a terrible idea imo.



Minimum yearly pay?  I'm not sure he's thought through the ramifications of his idea because there are lots of guys on the roster that are not worth 30k a year.  Guess what happens to them?  They lose their jobs.  You really think it's worth paying some local fill in guy 30k a year?  He mentions the minimum pay in the NBA is 540k but those are the guys that actually make the team.  Their bottom level guys in the NBA d-league get paid a minimum 14k and a max of around 28k. 



Also makes no sense for the UFC to institute an accross the board minimum pay.  There already exists the 8/8 at the moment, why would then put it in stone?  It just makes it harder to move if they want to.  The minimum already is 8/8, which comes out to 16k potentially.  He's actually suggesting they LOWER the minimum from a possible 16k to 15k.  You guys are cheering for a guy that wants to lower the minimum pay, think about that one. If he's suggesting more guranteed pay then that's up to the fighter isn't it?  Fighters have negotiated for less overall potential pay in exchange for more guranteed pay in the past.  He's suggesting everyone they moved to that scale?  What if guys would prefer to make more and take the risk?  He's suggesting they take control out of the fighters hands and make a standard scale?  Is that really better?



The no cut thing is just crazy.  Again there are very few fighters that are good enough warrant this type of thing.  You never know what's going to happen in this business so giving a guy a no cut contract is crazy unless the UFC is getting something major in return.  The UFC has paid guys big money anyways after several losses when they weren't worth it, so what will this fix really?   Like he said it's going to make the UFC selective and it's going to mean less opportunities for fighters out there.  That hurts fighters outside looking in doesn't it?  All this while solving what?  Making a few guys feel safe?  Removing the performance based aspect of their employment?  Is it ultimately worth it?



Extra tickets and rooms?  Wow,  I didn't realize this was such a big deal.  He's very generous with other peoples money saying it would be nothing to just add 22 plane tickets and hotel rooms and an extra 50$ per diem per show.  It's all got to come out of somewhere.  Also other fighters have negotiated for extra tickets and rooms before haven't they?  If it's that big a deal they can negotiate can't they?  My guess is that if they up it to three tickets lots of fighters girlfriends and buddys' are getting free flights.  If anything leave it two and allow fighters to ask for more if they can prove they need it.  Really if a fighter is not willing to pay for those guys to come out how important can they be?  I think it makes sense to maybe give something extra to guys that travel far though, that's got to be a bitch.  In the end though this whole suggestion boils down to "give everyone extra money."



The gym thing sounds reasonable but I have no idea how much hotels charge for gym access.  Is it a big deal?



The uniforms.  No one knows what this means or if it's going to happen.  It's pointless to complain about something that no one knows about.  He's creating a fiction then suggesting they fix a problem that he and others have created in their minds.  It's embarassing that he even commented on it.



All in all the suggestions aren't that good and boil down to the UFC spending more money to make fighters feel better.  Does any of this make the sport better?  Would Anderson Silva have been a greater fighter if he got more flights and a bigger per-diem?  Would Chuck Liddells run gone longer if they let his trainers into the hotel gym for free?  Are these the things that make MMA run?  Money has gone up, that can't be disputed.  Benefits have gone up.  All the while fans suggest the UFC is going down-hill and dying.  Yet somehow the UFC is at fault.  They complain about watered down cards then suggest that those fighters not worth watching for free should be paid more.  It's like everyone wants this great sport to die so they can have their little underdog show back.



On a final note, it was pretty dis-loyal to say anything close to "the UFC doesn't care about fighters" considering his past.  He can try to back-pedal and saying it was about some stupid sponsor tax or something, but in the end he said it and he has to live with it.  I hope it was worth it to him.



 



Nailed it~Great post that puts the whole thing into perspective and full of win

I'm surprised that people think this is something new from Nate or that he has some underhanded motive behind it. When i talked to him last summer he not only made almost the exact same points, he was also extremely complimentary towards the UFC while he was criticizing the conditions under which fighters negotiate. I think this is the part that is eluding most here: that you can think a group of people are not only good guys who are doing a great job running their company, but also think that the balance of power is tipped too far in their favor.

Nate 'Rock' Quarry - Let me state that I had the numbers wrong for my fight against Franklin. I swear I thought the gate was 3.5 million. It's been pointed out to me that the gate was about 2 million. The PPV buys about 200k. But we really don't know for sure because that information is not disclosed.
How much did I make? $10,000. But that number is NOT important. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, I should have negotiated a better deal. I should have negotiated like Randy did so I would have the rights to use my fight photos and videos.
But I didn't. Water under the bridge.
None of that is important. My last fight I was paid around 40k. Although I took a horrendous beating that took months to heal from and now have 13 screws and titanium in my face, I think I was paid very well for that fight.
Then why did I speak up in the first place? To change the past? To speak about low pay from 8 years ago? No, no I didn't.
I'm trying to address issues that are occurring right now with fighters. The sponsorships being cut, the sponsorship tax, things like that. Things that will benefit the fighters without hurting the UFC.
So let's look at some individual issues and look at potential solutions so I don't come off as a total whiny little baby:
Fight Week: Fighters are given two flights, one hotel room and $50 per diem
I suggest: Give the fighter 3 flights and $100 per diem. The days of one cornerman are over. Fighters are taking money out of their purses to pay for the numerous coaches they have to fly in to deliver the best fight possible.
Hotel Gyms: Fighters are allowed to use the gym for free, their corner has to pay to use the hotel gym where the fighter is actually fighting.
I suggest: The fighter and up to 3 cornermen get to use the hotel gym for free. This would cost next to nothing and is one little thing that shows the fighter that they aren't being nickeled and dimed.
Sponsorships: This is completely random. The last time I was dealing with the UFC, clothing and supplement sponsors had to pay $100k for the privilege of having a fighter put their logo on the fighter's shorts. Random companies don't have to pay a fee.
I suggest: Remove the sponsorship tax. This is going to bring back a myriad of sponsors that want to support the fighters and can't afford to pay 100k to the UFC.
UFC uniform: This is speculative but it seems that the UFC is moving towards a uniform for fighters to wear out to fight in. This is going to kill the remaining sponsors. No longer will they have a shirt sponsor if everyone is wearing the same shirt. No more shorts sponsors if everyone is wearing the same pair of shorts.
I suggest: Kill this idea. If the UFC is unhappy with certain fighters wearing inappropriate shorts or shirts, punish THEM. Not every fighter in the UFC.
UFC fight contract: I may be wrong but I believe the minimum wage in the UFC is $6,000. It goes up from there. I've had agents tell me they are pushing for a 5 fight contract. Why? If you're fighter goes on a win streak he can't demand more money. If he loses, he gets cut.
I suggest: A three fight NO cut contract. This lets the fighter know that for one year they are UFC fighters. They can focus on fighting and that's it. The UFC is going to be more selective knowing that the guy they sign will be around for a year. This gives the fighter time to get over the Octagon jitters. And build a fan base because the fans know this guy will be around for at least a year. Right now guys come and go. So what difference does it make if you have one guy signed for three fights instead of three guys that are one and done?
Pay scale: Again, I could be wrong, but I believe the UFC minimum is 6k.
I suggest: Starting salary $10,000 to show, $5,000 win bonus. If you win, your next fight is $10/7.5. The third fight on your contract would be $10/10. For one year the fighter knows that they will be making a minimum of 30k.
"Don't talk about money!" That's the golden rule when it comes to athletes. The average person will think you're an ungrateful crybaby and the owners will think you're ungrateful for all they've done for you.
"You got paid to follow your dreams!" Sure did. And much like a painter who loves to paint and someone comes along and offers to sell their paintings and makes a mint off of them, the painter deserves his fair share.
"You're saying this over social media? You should be a man and say these things privately and face to face!" I did. Over many years. And I was labeled an asshole and not a company man. And if you're not a company man that means no appearances and no exposure from corporate. And social media is today's version of picketing outside the offices. I can reach millions of people that are in my key demographic of people I want to reach instead of wearing a sandwich board outside an office. I did complain about having to pay to use the gym at the Palms to help my fighter cut weight. I was told rather soundly that I was the only one complaining and to be quiet. I did complain about sponsors being charge a tax or not being able to thank sponsors after fights and got THE call, telling me to be quiet. I even went to the MMA "journalists" and was told the repercussions of doing a story on such things would result in passes being pulled.
Do I represent every fighter? Hell no.
Do I think the UFC deserves to make the lion's share of the money? Hell yes. They are the ones that invested millions of dollars and years worth of time. And they are continuing to grow, worldwide.
And the UFC wants to present itself as a professional organization with uniforms and codes of conduct. And yet with all that, there is no one representing the fighters and what they want and need.
If you know me you would know I'm for increasing the minimum wage to about $10 an hour. But not $15 an hour. The minimum wage in the NBA is about $470k. I'm suggesting the minimum wage in the UFC be about $30k. You may call it apples and oranges but we have to start somewhere.
Feel free to quote stats that make me look like an idiot. Point out how I fought for the title and got brutally KO'ed. All I'm doing is trying to help my fellow fighters and speak my opinion. I'm not representing anyone but myself. I can only speak from my own experiences.
And my experience with the UFC was amazing. I got to fight for the world title, man! And Dana personally decided to pay for my back surgery. Not too many other bosses would do that. Everything in my life besides my daughter has come from fighting. And I'd do it all over again.
Oh, I'm not trying to generate interest for a comeback on my part. I'm not trying to promote Bellator or get cut from the UFC so I can fight for them. I'm sharing MY experiences. Good AND bad. And when I see the fighters losing sponsorship dollars for no good reason, that's when I feel I need to speak up.
Honestly, I don't enjoy this. But I have this little voice inside my head that won't let me sleep unless it gets its chance to talk.
Thank you all
Can't say I agree with all you say Nate, but the length of this post and the thought put into it show that you're not the "crybaby" many, including me, thought you were when you made the initial comments. You know way more than the majority of us of about the workings of the UFC payment system, so kudos for fighting for what you believe in! Phone Post 3.0

greatsantini - I'm surprised that people think this is something new from Nate or that he has some underhanded motive behind it. When i talked to him last summer he not only made almost the exact same points, he was also extremely complimentary towards the UFC while he was criticizing the conditions under which fighters negotiate. I think this is the part that is eluding most here: that you can think a group of people are not only good guys who are doing a great job running their company, but also think that the balance of power is tipped too far in their favor.


That's called talking out of both sides of your mouth. He flat out said the UFC didn't take care if it's figthers even though he benefited in the many ways that have been pointed out in this thread.



 



If the 'balance of power is tipped in their favor' is somehow not along the basic tenets of being employed by a company, then what is? The workers don't have the ' power' unless they own the company.. There's always the option of starting your own or working for another. It will always be this way in a capatalilst society unless you're a proponent of socialilsm or communism. 



 



To come back almost 9 years later and say you didn't get paid enough or you should've negotiated like Randy is not serving any benficial purpose. It's akin to kicking a hornets nest because you're bored and need some drama.

Blazing Knees - 
greatsantini - I'm surprised that people think this is something new from Nate or that he has some underhanded motive behind it. When i talked to him last summer he not only made almost the exact same points, he was also extremely complimentary towards the UFC while he was criticizing the conditions under which fighters negotiate. I think this is the part that is eluding most here: that you can think a group of people are not only good guys who are doing a great job running their company, but also think that the balance of power is tipped too far in their favor.


That's called talking out of both sides of your mouth. He flat out said the UFC didn't take care if it's figthers even though he benefited in the many ways that have been pointed out in this thread.



 



If the 'balance of power is tipped in their favor' is somehow not along the basic tenets of being employed by a company, then what is? The workers don't have the ' power' unless they own the company.. There's always the option of starting your own or working for another. It will always be this way in a capatalilst society unless you're a proponent of socialilsm or communism. 



 



To come back almost 9 years later and say you didn't get paid enough or you should've negotiated like Randy is not serving any benficial purpose. It's akin to kicking a hornets nest because you're bored and need some drama.


"That's called talking out of both sides of your mouth.
"
I disagree. I would consider his ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time a sign that he passes Fitzgerald's test of possessing a first rate intelligence. It's not inconceivable to be grateful for what the UFC has done for him, to like the owners on a personal level, and disagree with some of their business decisions.

"If the 'balance of power is tipped in their favor' is somehow not along the basic tenets of being employed by a company, then what is? The workers don't have the ' power' unless they own the company.. There's always the option of starting your own or working for another. It will always be this way in a capatalilst society unless you're a proponent of socialilsm or communism. "

The degree to which the balance of power tips to the UFC is the question. Numerous other sports have had similar problems in the past, MMA is nothing new. And throwing in the loaded association to socialism or communism for anyone who expresses that opinion seems like nothing more than a deliberate attempt to poison the well.

greatsantini - 
Blazing Knees - 
greatsantini - I'm surprised that people think this is something new from Nate or that he has some underhanded motive behind it. When i talked to him last summer he not only made almost the exact same points, he was also extremely complimentary towards the UFC while he was criticizing the conditions under which fighters negotiate. I think this is the part that is eluding most here: that you can think a group of people are not only good guys who are doing a great job running their company, but also think that the balance of power is tipped too far in their favor.


That's called talking out of both sides of your mouth. He flat out said the UFC didn't take care if it's figthers even though he benefited in the many ways that have been pointed out in this thread.



 



If the 'balance of power is tipped in their favor' is somehow not along the basic tenets of being employed by a company, then what is? The workers don't have the ' power' unless they own the company.. There's always the option of starting your own or working for another. It will always be this way in a capatalilst society unless you're a proponent of socialilsm or communism. 



 



To come back almost 9 years later and say you didn't get paid enough or you should've negotiated like Randy is not serving any benficial purpose. It's akin to kicking a hornets nest because you're bored and need some drama.


"That's called talking out of both sides of your mouth.
"
I disagree. I would consider his ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time a sign that he passes Fitzgerald's test of possessing a first rate intelligence. It's not inconceivable to be grateful for what the UFC has done for him, to like the owners on a personal level, and disagree with some of their business decisions.

"If the 'balance of power is tipped in their favor' is somehow not along the basic tenets of being employed by a company, then what is? The workers don't have the ' power' unless they own the company.. There's always the option of starting your own or working for another. It will always be this way in a capatalilst society unless you're a proponent of socialilsm or communism. "

The degree to which the balance of power tips to the UFC is the question. Numerous other sports have had similar problems in the past, MMA is nothing new. And throwing in the loaded association to socialism or communism for anyone who expresses that opinion seems like nothing more than a deliberate attempt to poison the well.


Poison? It's the truth~



Let's review the postions taken. Minimum 3 fight contract with NO chance of being cut=socialistic concept eliminating performance levels because 'your job is secure even if you suck or panic in the cage



Nate supports a 10.00 an hour minimum wage-just like a certain socialist POTUS that's currently in office and shoving subsidized, forced, mandated insurance with penalties and financial ramifications if you don't goosestep inline. Do you have ANY idea of what would happen to our economy if that happened? Just reasearch, I don't have time to explain-it's a horrible idea



Minimum 30k a year? Yeah, more socialism. So some guy can just lose 3 fights badly, can't get cut, maybe not train and cash his checks? " yeah I'm on the payroll' It's been proved countless times that performance based incentivees and pay not only elevate the level of competition but eliminate complacency and mediocrity. Another horrible idea. This is not the NFL or MLB, this is a fight org that will probably NEVER go mainstream for a lot of reasons.



Let shit sponsors in without having a 100k financial litmus to control and monitor who's doiing business in your company so that the employees can run amok and get money from any garage-based t-shirt company? Yeah ok. If a company doesn't have the financial strength to play in the big leagues-tough shit-get stronger. I personally don't want to see 'Condom Depot' stickers on fighters shorts-do you? How many threads have fighters started on here because they didn't get paid INCLUDING Nate? I can think of plenty- Seth Petrezelli-SPencer Fisher-a bunch of them. Brng your checkbook and sit down boys, this is how we give you national exposure in our org-it's 100k to play-What's wrong with that? Of that's right, just let them, baggage and bullshit excused because it's socialism and everyone wins and gets a shot regardless of financial assets or credibility.



I could continue to pick this shit apart and prove that it has a socilistic slant but I've done enough. I have to go to work now, to support all these lazy cocksuckers who have thier collective hands out wanting some of what I earn. 45 million healthy people are on food stamps today-let's give them a 3 year minimujm to find a job that they can't get fired from regardless of how shitty they do thier job-while they get paid from other sources while on the clock---yeah ok

lol @ the "socialism" rants

Stipe - lol @ the "socialism" rants


Yeah, you two go sign up for your mandated health insurance and get back with me after your wallet is raided. Every point I made is a socialistic concept-I coulld've gone on but why bother. This is a free enterprise country based on capatalism. You just don't get it because you're young and still on the titty

mrwhipple - There's nothing funnier than a laughable rant against "socialism" by someone who's obviously unaware how laughable that rant was. Good stuff.


Really fuckface? What's laughable-your inability to grasp the obvious?

Ttt Phone Post 3.0

I'm Canadian, and our universal health care works because everyone buys into it. The US system--from my perspective-- has the wealthy elites dividing and conquering the poor or middle classes based on fear, misinformation and by giving the lower classes a false sense of elitism.

A lot of middlemen have gotten rich-- HMOs, insurance companies, hospitals/doctors who over-bill. A lot of fraud takes place in the US system inflating costs further.

I think if people were more honest about their situation, they would recognize its cheaper for everyone if everyone buys into a socialized model.

Brian J DSouza - I'm Canadian, and our universal health care works because everyone buys into it. The US system--from my perspective-- has the wealthy elites dividing and conquering the poor or middle classes based on fear, misinformation and by giving the lower classes a false sense of elitism.

A lot of middlemen have gotten rich-- HMOs, insurance companies, hospitals/doctors who over-bill. A lot of fraud takes place in the US system inflating costs further.

I think if people were more honest about their situation, they would recognize its cheaper for everyone if everyone buys into a socialized model.


Your country has the worst universal health care system on the planet. My father in law died waiting 9 months for an opearation that would've been done in an hour here for his cancer.



 



THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH GETTING RICH- Look at this Canadains post ^ he's been brainwashed into thinking that the 'middlemen' or ANYONE is not deserving of getting rich. That's the beauty of America=-anyone can do anything and get rich in the process and if you don't like that then move to fucking Canada and pay 40% tax rate and wait 9 months to die.



Fucking communists, pinko's, socialistsm underachevers, dope smokers, lazy, weak, soft titty suckers/ get up and be someone and make your fortune and fame. There are winners and losers in this life-this is not the ymca where everyone gets a trophy for playing and noone keeps score so no one gets their little feelings hurt. You soft headed.lemon faced, pickle nosed, socialist losers.

You seem upset

Blazing Knees - 
Brian J DSouza - I'm Canadian, and our universal health care works because everyone buys into it. The US system--from my perspective-- has the wealthy elites dividing and conquering the poor or middle classes based on fear, misinformation and by giving the lower classes a false sense of elitism.

A lot of middlemen have gotten rich-- HMOs, insurance companies, hospitals/doctors who over-bill. A lot of fraud takes place in the US system inflating costs further.

I think if people were more honest about their situation, they would recognize its cheaper for everyone if everyone buys into a socialized model.


Your country has the worst universal health care system on the planet. My father in law died waiting 9 months for an opearation that would've been done in an hour here for his cancer.



 



THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH GETTING RICH- Look at this Canadains post ^ he's been brainwashed into thinking that the 'middlemen' or ANYONE is not deserving of getting rich. That's the beauty of America=-anyone can do anything and get rich in the process and if you don't like that then move to fucking Canada and pay 40% tax rate and wait 9 months to die.



Fucking communists, pinko's, socialistsm underachevers, dope smokers, lazy, weak, soft titty suckers/ get up and be someone and make your fortune and fame. There are winners and losers in this life-this is not the ymca where everyone gets a trophy for playing and noone keeps score so no one gets their little feelings hurt. You soft headed.lemon faced, pickle nosed, socialist losers.



Live your life with the sole purpose of making money and fuck everyone else. Just live every day as a competition where you are out to tread on the weaklings to make your fame and fortune.
Fuck them and their excuses, let them wallow in their own misery. Because life is all about being the richest and most successful! That is all we are on this earth for, Get Rich!
If you believe anything else you are a brainwashed socialist, lazy, commie dope smoker.
Viva Big Business. Money, money, money!



mrwhipple - I'm glad Blazing Knees saw fit to explain his position because we can know see what type of person is attacking Nate and his comments - an extreme laissez-faire, Ayn Rand objectivismist.


I'm not attacking anyone-IF you had bothered to read the thread, you would find that I'm a fan of Nate and remain one, regardless of this drama.



Here's just ONE example of why the UFC has to control sponsors-Spencer Fischer, one of the best, gettting ripped of by yet another fly-by-night 'sponsor'



 http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/thread/1661965/Toe-2-Toe-owes-me-money/?&page=1       I cold find countless other examples of guys getting screwed by sponsors-THIS is why there is a financial ante to play in the bigs



 



I'm a free enterprise capatalist-hardly obsessed with 'getting rich' but I find it awfully hypocritical to rail me for talkiing about capatalism vs socialism while the thread Nate started is about getting paid-



The mendacity stinks, just like your Candian income taxation rate and your socialized health care system does.



 



 

"If you got into fighting to be rich, you chose the wrong sport. Do it for the love and if you get rich that's a nice bonus."
 Nate Quarry