My new goal: to figure out the triangle.

For years I just figured I would never be the guy that get's triangles. I am short with short legs and in 5 years I have caught two triangles, both on scrawny new guys and one was mounted. To be honest I never even try anymore. I gave up long ago. I was watching some random video the other day and saw a tiny chick slap a triangle on a big guy. Couldn't name the video if I wanted to. It got me thinking and I am ready to try again. If that tiny chick can get a triangle on that huge dude why can't I? 

One major concern I have is that I feel a lot of pressure in the knee that is going behind the neck when I attempt a triangle. Does anyone else feel this pressure? It is a lot of the reason I gave up as I feel like I am going to blow out my knee when I do them. It could be technique but I don't think so. My leg/knee just doesn't like it. Anyone else feel this pressure or know someone who has had this problem? Has anyone ever heard of blowing out a knee from a triangle? 

Anyway, I am moving forward. If I feel too much pressure I will let go and try again later. I am concentrating on the entrance right now. I figure the more I drill the position the quicker and crisper it will get. I will spend a lot of time getting stacked I'm sure. Does anyone have any tips for a 5-year 3-stripe blue who is going to give the triangle another shot?

If guys like Bruno Malfcaine and Jeff Glover can triangle so can you.

I am short, 5'8" and I get them pretty decently. I just avoid trying them on the fatties. Before I triangle my leg over I make sure to shrimp out far (so I can see inside the persons ear) that seems to have helped me lots Phone Post 3.0

Also, I can't remember where I saw this but someone showed the triangle and a little detail they used was to straight arm their leg that's around the persons neck/back- so if they try to stack you- it works as a frame and you get pushed instead of stacked Phone Post 3.0

The triangle from guard is like the Hail Mary of bjj strategy. Phone Post 3.0

5'8"er here:

Just made the realization myself that a big key to my success on these is getting both my hands behind the head. I've been able to make adjustments to my legs while either controlling the head or threatening to control the head.

The insidebjj crew put a triangle entry up on their youtube (I said it, YOUTUBE) called "the dookie triangle," that I've also had a ton of success with.

Guys too much bigger than me I usually have to bail on triangle, but then just try to do an attack chain: armbar, omoplata. I can usually get that armbar, but if I have to go all the way to the omoplata at least the position is better. Plus I'm (we) are a little faster and I (we) can get to the back pretty fast from there.

Marion Cobretti - The triangle from guard is like the Hail Mary of bjj strategy. Phone Post 3.0

my thoughts are usually, "well, fuck it, let's see if this works."

I liked Roy Dean's triangle seminar. It is an app in itunes. Also, search YouTube for the big guy triangle from Keith oh and. He shows the variation where you don't even close the triangle. That can work pretty well. Phone Post 3.0

VTFU's all around.

 

I am going to incorporate the shrimping thing. Also the straight arm sounds great. 

Ryan halls triangle DVD is amazing. Don't know if it's just cause my legs are long and I find triangles easy to close, but the finishes Ryan shows on the DVD are gold, the only way I finish them now. Phone Post 3.0

GaspareBJJ - Also, I can't remember where I saw this but someone showed the triangle and a little detail they used was to straight arm their leg that's around the persons neck/back- so if they try to stack you- it works as a frame and you get pushed instead of stacked Phone Post 3.0
Renzo video. Triangle stack defence Phone Post 3.0

Khelso - Ryan halls triangle DVD is amazing. Don't know if it's just cause my legs are long and I find triangles easy to close, but the finishes Ryan shows on the DVD are gold, the only way I finish them now. Phone Post 3.0
I have shortish legs, and Ryan Hall's triangle works for me perfectly.

I couldn't recommend watching these dvds enough. One of the important points he emphasises is to cut a massive and when finishing, and underhooking their leg, arm or (in the worst case) hip.
I've finished big guys in the open weight with this triangle (I'm usually 150lbs). Phone Post 3.0

Success with the triangle choke depends most largely on 2 important spatial relationships:
1)  The relationship of your first leg to your torso
2)  The relationship of your first leg to your opponent's neck / shoulders

Master these, and the second leg is fairly unnecessary (though you can add it for funsies).  Your "first leg" is the one that goes on your partner's neck (the "over" leg).

So regarding relationship #1, it is vitally important that your leg be PARALLEL to your upper body, not perpendicular to it.  Here's a picture that is WRONG WRONG WRONG:

Place your right leg at that angle right now.  Pull your heel to your butt with all of your strength.  THAT'S ALL YOU GOT? DO YOU EVEN HAMSTRING CURL, BRO?

Here's the proper relationship of your leg to your own torso:

Place your right leg into the nice, happy, position shown here, where it is parallel to your upper body.  Pull your heel to your butt. FEEL THE POWER!!!!!

To say all this another way, when you connect the dots that put the "triangle" into "triangle choke", you should not be looking at the face of the triangle. Instead, you should be seeing it as a line, because the plane of the triangle is in line with your face. 


For relationship #2, imagine your triangle choke as a lasso.  We need to lasso the narrowest possible slice of your opponent's upper body.  This is especially important if you have shorter, thicker legs, and your partner is yoked like an ox.

Many people place their legs into a triangle and the heel of the first leg winds up somewhere around their partner's armpit.  Here's a picture:


This is the worst expenditure of your energy. You are literally choking their back and not their neck.  Yes, if you are a gumby, you can squeeze inwards here and it doesn't matter, but for the rest of us mortals we need this to be efficient. It needs to be RIGHT.

The second group of people place their first leg so that the heel winds up at about the shoulder.  Unfortunately, this is the WIDEST measurement you could create inside your lasso.  It makes it very difficult to secure the second leg (if desired), and you still get a bit of collarbone/shoulder in the back of your knee.

The ideal placement of the first leg is actually so that your heel falls at or just above your opponent's far EAR.  It means that instead of having your leg slightly diagonal across his shoulders, and instead of being perpendicular to his shoulder line, your feet are slightly diagonal AWAY from his body.  Here's a pic:

When you place your legs like this, two great things happen: (A) You have lassoed the thinnest portion possible: his neck and his upper arm. (B) Your kneepit has nothing to chomp down upon except for the side of his neck - you will tend to find you get your hamstring right onto the neck, between the jawbone and the collarbone.  It's glorious.

With these two spatial relationships in place, you can finish with one leg, with one leg and the far hand pulling down on the ankle, or with the traditional two legs.  Work on whichever you prefer, or all three.  But be sure you have these two things down or it'll be more work and frustration than it's worth.

Good training to you!

twinkletoesCT -


Success with the triangle choke depends most largely on 2 important spatial relationships:

1)  The relationship of your first leg to your torso

2)  The relationship of your first leg to your opponent's neck / shoulders



Master these, and the second leg is fairly unnecessary (though you can add it for funsies).  Your "first leg" is the one that goes on your partner's neck (the "over" leg).


So regarding relationship #1, it is vitally important that your leg be PARALLEL to your upper body, not perpendicular to it.  Here's a picture that is WRONG WRONG WRONG:





Place your right leg at that angle right now.  Pull your heel to your butt with all of your strength.  THAT'S ALL YOU GOT? DO YOU EVEN HAMSTRING CURL, BRO?


Here's the proper relationship of your leg to your own torso:





Place your right leg into the nice, happy, position shown here, where it is parallel to your upper body.  Pull your heel to your butt. FEEL THE POWER!!!!!


To say all this another way, when you connect the dots that put the "triangle" into "triangle choke", you should not be looking at the face of the triangle. Instead, you should be seeing it as a line, because the plane of the triangle is in line with your face. 





For relationship #2, imagine your triangle choke as a lasso.  We need to lasso the narrowest possible slice of your opponent's upper body.  This is especially important if you have shorter, thicker legs, and your partner is yoked like an ox.


Many people place their legs into a triangle and the heel of the first leg winds up somewhere around their partner's armpit.  Here's a picture:





This is the worst expenditure of your energy. You are literally choking their back and not their neck.  Yes, if you are a gumby, you can squeeze inwards here and it doesn't matter, but for the rest of us mortals we need this to be efficient. It needs to be RIGHT.


The second group of people place their first leg so that the heel winds up at about the shoulder.  Unfortunately, this is the WIDEST measurement you could create inside your lasso.  It makes it very difficult to secure the second leg (if desired), and you still get a bit of collarbone/shoulder in the back of your knee.



The ideal placement of the first leg is actually so that your heel falls at or just above your opponent's far EAR.  It means that instead of having your leg slightly diagonal across his shoulders, and instead of being perpendicular to his shoulder line, your feet are slightly diagonal AWAY from his body.  Here's a pic:




When you place your legs like this, two great things happen: (A) You have lassoed the thinnest portion possible: his neck and his upper arm. (B) Your kneepit has nothing to chomp down upon except for the side of his neck - you will tend to find you get your hamstring right onto the neck, between the jawbone and the collarbone.  It's glorious.



With these two spatial relationships in place, you can finish with one leg, with one leg and the far hand pulling down on the ankle, or with the traditional two legs.  Work on whichever you prefer, or all three.  But be sure you have these two things down or it'll be more work and frustration than it's worth.


Good training to you!

Wow, excellent break down, twinkle toes! Phone Post 3.0

twinkletoesCT - 


Success with the triangle choke depends most largely on 2 important spatial relationships:

1)  The relationship of your first leg to your torso

2)  The relationship of your first leg to your opponent's neck / shoulders



Master these, and the second leg is fairly unnecessary (though you can add it for funsies).  Your "first leg" is the one that goes on your partner's neck (the "over" leg).


So regarding relationship #1, it is vitally important that your leg be PARALLEL to your upper body, not perpendicular to it.  Here's a picture that is WRONG WRONG WRONG:





Place your right leg at that angle right now.  Pull your heel to your butt with all of your strength.  THAT'S ALL YOU GOT? DO YOU EVEN HAMSTRING CURL, BRO?


Here's the proper relationship of your leg to your own torso:





Place your right leg into the nice, happy, position shown here, where it is parallel to your upper body.  Pull your heel to your butt. FEEL THE POWER!!!!!


To say all this another way, when you connect the dots that put the "triangle" into "triangle choke", you should not be looking at the face of the triangle. Instead, you should be seeing it as a line, because the plane of the triangle is in line with your face. 





For relationship #2, imagine your triangle choke as a lasso.  We need to lasso the narrowest possible slice of your opponent's upper body.  This is especially important if you have shorter, thicker legs, and your partner is yoked like an ox.


Many people place their legs into a triangle and the heel of the first leg winds up somewhere around their partner's armpit.  Here's a picture:





This is the worst expenditure of your energy. You are literally choking their back and not their neck.  Yes, if you are a gumby, you can squeeze inwards here and it doesn't matter, but for the rest of us mortals we need this to be efficient. It needs to be RIGHT.


The second group of people place their first leg so that the heel winds up at about the shoulder.  Unfortunately, this is the WIDEST measurement you could create inside your lasso.  It makes it very difficult to secure the second leg (if desired), and you still get a bit of collarbone/shoulder in the back of your knee.



The ideal placement of the first leg is actually so that your heel falls at or just above your opponent's far EAR.  It means that instead of having your leg slightly diagonal across his shoulders, and instead of being perpendicular to his shoulder line, your feet are slightly diagonal AWAY from his body.  Here's a pic:




When you place your legs like this, two great things happen: (A) You have lassoed the thinnest portion possible: his neck and his upper arm. (B) Your kneepit has nothing to chomp down upon except for the side of his neck - you will tend to find you get your hamstring right onto the neck, between the jawbone and the collarbone.  It's glorious.



With these two spatial relationships in place, you can finish with one leg, with one leg and the far hand pulling down on the ankle, or with the traditional two legs.  Work on whichever you prefer, or all three.  But be sure you have these two things down or it'll be more work and frustration than it's worth.


Good training to you!



That's a VTFU!



 



Of all the classes my instructor could have taught tonight it was the beginning of the triangle series. We drilled entering the triangle and I kept going for them while rolling. I didn't get any but I was closer than I thought. 



I will say that I get a lot of pain on the back of my calves when I try triangles but I am working on the angle that you talked about and it seems to be helping. I am committed to learning triangles. 



 



VTFU man! Awesome post!

twinkletoesCT -


Success with the triangle choke depends most largely on 2 important spatial relationships:

1)  The relationship of your first leg to your torso

2)  The relationship of your first leg to your opponent's neck / shoulders



Master these, and the second leg is fairly unnecessary (though you can add it for funsies).  Your "first leg" is the one that goes on your partner's neck (the "over" leg).


So regarding relationship #1, it is vitally important that your leg be PARALLEL to your upper body, not perpendicular to it.  Here's a picture that is WRONG WRONG WRONG:





Place your right leg at that angle right now.  Pull your heel to your butt with all of your strength.  THAT'S ALL YOU GOT? DO YOU EVEN HAMSTRING CURL, BRO?


Here's the proper relationship of your leg to your own torso:





Place your right leg into the nice, happy, position shown here, where it is parallel to your upper body.  Pull your heel to your butt. FEEL THE POWER!!!!!


To say all this another way, when you connect the dots that put the "triangle" into "triangle choke", you should not be looking at the face of the triangle. Instead, you should be seeing it as a line, because the plane of the triangle is in line with your face. 





For relationship #2, imagine your triangle choke as a lasso.  We need to lasso the narrowest possible slice of your opponent's upper body.  This is especially important if you have shorter, thicker legs, and your partner is yoked like an ox.


Many people place their legs into a triangle and the heel of the first leg winds up somewhere around their partner's armpit.  Here's a picture:





This is the worst expenditure of your energy. You are literally choking their back and not their neck.  Yes, if you are a gumby, you can squeeze inwards here and it doesn't matter, but for the rest of us mortals we need this to be efficient. It needs to be RIGHT.


The second group of people place their first leg so that the heel winds up at about the shoulder.  Unfortunately, this is the WIDEST measurement you could create inside your lasso.  It makes it very difficult to secure the second leg (if desired), and you still get a bit of collarbone/shoulder in the back of your knee.



The ideal placement of the first leg is actually so that your heel falls at or just above your opponent's far EAR.  It means that instead of having your leg slightly diagonal across his shoulders, and instead of being perpendicular to his shoulder line, your feet are slightly diagonal AWAY from his body.  Here's a pic:




When you place your legs like this, two great things happen: (A) You have lassoed the thinnest portion possible: his neck and his upper arm. (B) Your kneepit has nothing to chomp down upon except for the side of his neck - you will tend to find you get your hamstring right onto the neck, between the jawbone and the collarbone.  It's glorious.



With these two spatial relationships in place, you can finish with one leg, with one leg and the far hand pulling down on the ankle, or with the traditional two legs.  Work on whichever you prefer, or all three.  But be sure you have these two things down or it'll be more work and frustration than it's worth.


Good training to you!

The examples you showed are just what I was trying to explain. Voted up sir Phone Post 3.0

nice. I love the triangle. After awhile cinching them up will become second nature, then its just a matter of finding different angles and setups to hit them off of.

Great breakdown twinkletoesCT

I insist on trying triangles on big guys. Stubborn or glutton for punishment, not sure which. I can get them great on nearly anyone during technique practice so I know I can get them rolling eventually.

Here is a video I made on triangles for short or thick legged guys.
Enjoy!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L9duDwMD6pM Phone Post 3.0

Subbed.

I find it hardest to actually get a tight triangle. Ie getting the able under the knee Phone Post 3.0

This video by Jeff Rockwell is VERY good for shutting down the power pass, especially the detail about trapping the arm first and retreating to that position if they start to pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWCvz7BOa3s