when you do this choke, do you put the hand of the arm under the head OVER your choking forearm like a gi loop choke, or under your forearm like you are doing a rear naked choke facing him?
is this a high percentage choke for you?
are you able to finish if he rolls you?
A variation that I have gotten to work for me is to use a fist choke...one hand behind the head like usual, but the other hand you make a fist into the carotid.
Doesn't work
"JJ Machado is good at it."
any competition footage or instructional footage? who has he got with it? thanks.
I have a lot of success with the gi and no-gi ezekiel. I tap almost everybody with it. For the no-gi version, I actually developed several different variations, because not every method worked on everybody. I have successfully used both methods mentioned by Demandango.
I will point out however that if I'm rolled, the effectiveness is drastically lowered. Unless it's a gi ezekiel from the bottom, the no-gi ezekiel from the bottom is very hard to get unless you're much bigger and stronger than your opponent. If you get rolled, I'd recommend switching to something else.
I almost never get rolled when doing the ezekiel from mount, though. This is because I always emphasize CONTROL over my opponent before going for a submission. Because I don't have my hands free to stop any upa attempt, I have to make sure my elbows are firmly embedded onto the mat to compensate. The rest of my mount control (controlling his legs and upper body, my weight placement, position of my head, pressure from my hips, etc) has to be TIGHT. Only if I'm certain I have control over my opponent do I attempt any submission.
By the same token, I very rarely get tapped by anyone from mount. That's because I find most people don't have strong mount control. For those who I can't roll, I get some form of guard. Sometimes they'll give up the mount to go for an armbar and I'll escape during the armbar attempt. Occassionally I'll give up my back and escape from there. The point being that a successful submission (especially an ezekiel from mount) starts first with establishing complete control over your opponent. Basic knowledge, I know, but a point that still needs to be improved upon by the majority.
Here's a video of a no-gi ezekiel in competition from guard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4YM98ISLC8&feature=related
Lautaro
I use it all the time from the mount, but mostly as a setup for other stuff, as it's not that difficult to defend (but defense will open other opportunities). Sometimes it works by itself too. I use the fist-in-carotid variant with the hand grabbing the fist arm over the forearm.
Not high percentage (for me), but worthwhile all the less.
Lautaro,
That was a nice Ezekial/fist choke from guard. Do you have any footage of you doing your choke or chokes from mount?
I am pretty good at maintaining mount, but I find that I have to do one of two things to maintain it: 1)Bring my knees up high toward my opponents armpits and rap an arm around his neck--turning his chin to the side with my shoulder or 2) Grapevine my legs with my opponent's legs and keep my hips low on my opponent's belly.
I just use position #2 as a set up for the #1 position. My problem is that when I try to no-gi choke from the #1 position, I usually get rolled or can't get a submission with the choke. When I put the choke on hard, I get rolled. When I try to balance the choke with protecting against the roll, I can't get my opponent to tap. Can you help me out there?
MMD: I don't have any footage of me grappling, unfortunately, but that's a great idea. I'll work on that and in the future I'll be able to show others more clearly what I'm talking about. I was already thinking of doing that for a long time, but now I'll definitely do it. Thanks for that!
As for getting rolled, there are a number of possible reasons. I'm pretty damn sure that if I tried to maintain mount on any top grappler they could roll me. So the difference in skill is one factor. Size and strength is another factor. Although I'm not big (almost 6', 180pds) I have long limbs and I'm fairly strong, which helps. I also have years of grappling experience, which also helps. So even if we both do exactly the same thing to the same guy, it won't be the same.
For what it's worth, here's a few tips: I tend not to use a high mount when doing the ezekiel because it raises my centre of gravity. I do use the high mount for other submissions, but not the ezekiel. I want a very low mount, with my legs controlling his if possible and my hips pushing tight into his hips (a detail I rarely feel from opponents). I want as much as possible to limit or prevent his ability to upa or roll. My elbows are based out as far as I can and I drive them tight into the mat. This is very important since I can't base out with my hands! My head is also low to the ground and my weight is shifted to the side my head is on (also very important!). If my left arm is under his head, my head and weight are leaning to the right to compensate. Once I have the ezekiel locked in, I drive into him with my chest, using my body and not the strength of my arms to apply pressure.
As I mentioned, I can't always submit everybody with the same method, so I use several different variations of the no-gi ezekiel. But the CONTROL aspect is the same for all of them. So emphasize the following: control his legs with your legs, DRIVE your hips into his (BIG detail), control his head securely with your arm, keep your head and weight on the opposite arm and LOW to the ground, your elbows must be TIGHT to the mat, and drive into him with your chest.
Hope that helps!
Lautaro
Btw, I went to bjj class today and one of the guys I rolled with asked me to show him a submission from mount. I had planned on showing him the no-gi ezekiel since it was fresh in my mind. I got on top of him and locked my mount in tight. You know what happened? He tapped out, just from the pressure of my mount, before I could do any submission. He said he couldn't breathe and the pressure was too painful. THAT is the kind of pressure I'm talking about.
Lautaro
Admittedly I get caught here.... What is your counter to the no gi Ezekiel? WIth the gi I usually hand fight for collar position.
Hahahaha, my counter is usually to roll the guy, lol. But that's because a lot of people don't have a good enough mount.
Thing is, if someone skilled mounts me, then I'm in trouble. I need to get some kind of guard or sweep them, because being mounted is bad. If the guy on top is so good I can't get him off or do anything, I'm in big trouble. If he then establishes a very tight ezekiel and I still can't get him off, then I'm in BIG trouble. I may have only seconds left before I tap out.
Here's what I would do: Chin down and shoulders up to my ears to protect my trachea and carotid arteries (do this ALWAYS). If his left arm is under my head and his right arm is attacking my neck, I use my right hand on his right wrist to ease the pressure on my neck. This will hopefully buy me a few extra seconds. With my left arm I need to attack his base, by pulling his right elbow down as much as I can (to weaken his support on that side) and also driving my forearm into his neck to try and disrupt his weight shift. My legs and hips should be actively trying to buck and roll the whole time to hopefully create some space. Just lying there and using only your arms to defend is not good enough. You have to use your entire body.
As with any counter, you shouldn't let him get to the point where he establishes a tight ezekiel. First you have to fight him off the mount. If that doesn't work, then shut down his attack before it gets sunk in. If that doesn't work, you have only seconds left before you tap. Ease the pressure on your neck, disrupt his base, and use your whole body to shake him off you.
Hope that helps!
Lautaro
"JJ Machado is good at it."
any competition footage or instructional footage? who has he got with it? thanks.
About 1:45 in, he didn't get the finish, but is able to beautifully set up the armlock:
Thanks!
Thanks for the video, Jayman! Wow, JJ is an attacking machine! I love that aggressive style!
Uno displayed the methods I mentioned to escape, by using his whole body to create movement and using his arms to disrupt JJ's base and take the pressure off his neck. Incredible display of skill by both men!
Lautaro
thanks jayman! the reason i asked about this is that i think it's a missing piece in my no gi mount puzzle. i want to have it a lot stronger for when a guy gives up his neck by swimming his arm inside and then out to defend the arm triangle. i think the neck crank may be high percentage as well but i usually train with no neck cranks allowed, but it's also a piece of the puzzle for mma perhaps.
I tried this today and it didn't work. I grapevined my opponents legs, moved to a high mount, tried to be heavy with my chest and make sure my elbows are not floating above the mat. The problem (imo): I have small, short arms (read: I'm not strong) and my opponent had a relatively big neck, maybe 80 or lbs on me, and is 6'2" (I'm a smudge taller than 5'11"). He said it felt somewhat painful but nothing he would tap from. Maybe I was doing something wrong? I didn't try the fist variation but perhaps I'll see how that goes. I switched to a front RNC (from mount) and that made him tap.
Lautaro,
Thanks for the pointers for the ezekial with the low moint. I will have to pay more attention to my hip pressure.
You mentioned, "I do use the high mount for other submissions, but not the ezekiel." Do you do any choke submissions from high mount or are talking others?
From high mount I often wrap their own arm around their neck and control them from that position. This leads to a number of chokes and armbars and I can more easily turn them onto their stomach for the rear mount.
Keep in mind that, as with anything else, it takes time and practise to develop this submission. You can't expect to get it right away.
With regards to the hip pressure, imagine that you're trying to pin their hips to the ground with your own hips. The idea is that you don't want him to be able to move his hips at all, if possible. If you don't control his legs and hips he'll be able to buck and roll. Developing this kind of pressure takes a lot of time and practise, but it's well worth it in the end.
Lautaro
i was hitting this at will on my student today, but he was feeling it as more of a crank and throat pressure as opposed to a strangle- does anyone get it as a blood choke? i wouldn't be able to put anyone to sleep with it yet i don't think.
i was using more the 'fist' version, i put my left arm under the neck, and grabbed very near my right wrist.