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81

MickColins - " I've remained neutral on EVERYTHING,"

From a brief search here and on Sherdog, you support TLI on both boards and defend Lloyd. I don't think you're as neutral as you think, my man.

And if you wanted to show these documents you state that reveal the truthiness of your position, scanning isn't very difficult. Hell, you don't even need to scan if you have an iPhone.

And while you aren't part of TLI as you say, you've apparently trained with Lloyd enough to comment on how he teaches and refer to him as "Master Lloyd" in one of your posts. You've also posted that you trained at TLI "a considerable amount of time" on Sherdog. Phone Post 3.0


From a brief search??!? I've been up front about everything, you dont need any brief searches to aid you in whatever quest you have to associate me more than I am with TLI.  However i'll indulge your points for the sake of clarity and transparency:



1. "From a brief search here and on Sherdog, you support TLI on both boards and defend Lloyd.  I dont think you're as neutral as you think, my man".



My last post on Sherdog was 2yrs ago, and that was during the time frame when people were leaving, and I was clearing up things regarding WHY they were leaving vs. what the public perception was.  Prior to that, my only post even mentioning Lloyd was in 2010 FIVE YEARS AGO, and if you look at the context of what I said, my time at the school was prior to that.  So we have what, a whopping 2 posts over there? Yea, definitely very supportive.  Here's the sherdog post in question:





You have to dig up posts from 5yrs ago that I not only acknowledged, but even referenced back on an earlier page, lol, yea ok.



2. "Refer to him as "Master Lloyd in one of your posts". 



- Ok? Who HASNT referred to him as Master Lloyd at some point or another, so whats your point? The general jist of what im seeing here is you're going to dig up some old posts from the past to try to find a way to say that im being an pologist.  One thing that you HAVENT done was taken to heart ANYTHING that i've said in this thread.  If I was a member of TLI, why would I hide it? For the most part at least through the colored belts they are still pushing strong, and even have Spriggs making noise at black belt.  So if I was a part of a team having competitive success why would I hide it for the sake of getting vote downs on a forum where the majority of their competitors dont post anyway? Come on man, that makes little to no sense, and its why I keep saying you're desperately grasping for something that just isnt there.  



Lastly, ive been very clear as to why im not scanning several documents.  I know scanning isnt difficult, just like I know following up on court case numbers isnt difficult, but because im not willing to just lay everything out red carpet style your upset.  So let me articulate this as clearly as I can, in this thread i've never defended Lloyds person, his character, or his business.  What I have done however was pointed out two ttruths that no matter how many times you gang up and vote me down, this will not change:



Fact 1: You're ONLY, I repeat ONLY source of information regarding Lloyds case is an old article from a website that has contradicted itself multiple times.  I've linked to the contradiction, hell, i've even done the work and screen pasted it here.  However not ONCE has it been mentioned, or referenced, its just been glossed over.  Maybe you dont address it because you know its easier to avoid the truth and keep the drama mongering, or maybe you dont address it because you're not actually reading anything im saying before pressing the quote button, who knows.  One thing that is for certain though, the contradiction isnt my personal stance or opinion, its an irrefutable fact, you guys just have decided to pick a side, and ignore the other.



Fact 2: Ive given more than enough information that anyone here could easily call my bluff and follow up on, but you refuse to do it.  Im fully aware of WHY most of you wont do it, all I've said was that the truth is easily obtainable, but nobody is interested in knowing what actually took place, people are interested in drama.  First it was Lloyd paid for Schultz and Maldonaldos defense, then when I mentioned that I contacted the families and asked through Facebook like everything else, that point got skipped over because you needed to find a new angle.



Like I said, im not defending anyone, all im saying is if you're going to condemn him, use a legit source first.

82

Denise - Backaddict, do you really find it difficult to understand why so many in the BJJ community are offended by Lloyd?


Honestly Denise when I first found out about everything I was as disgusted as everyone else, so yes, I do understand why people are offended by Lloyd.  The only thing i've said was if you're going to bash him, follow up on an accurate source of information first.  That was (and still is) my only point.  Not once have I defended him, or spoke to his character.  All i've said was use an accurate source of information, and i've even tried to share it.  The problem in this case (and I knew it'd be like this prior to me even responding to people), is that a portion of the community hated Lloyd long before people found out what happened in 89.  They hated the marketing, hated his website, hated that his students call him Master, they just hated everything in general, so this was just something to fuel that hatred and give it purpose.



One thing I do find curious though is if people hate him so much, why hasnt a single member from this thread said anything to his face at worlds or pans? Him and his crew are at most of these tournaments, and i've yet to see a single commotion from someone saying something to him.  Its usually LImp, Rape Irvin, etc. etc. online, but cricketts when they have an opportunity to say anything to him.



 

83
Meatgrinder - 
BackAddict347x - 
Meatgrinder - 

and who the F has this much free time... or even wants to spend this much of his free time on something that really has no direct effect no his life... Don't you have more important things to do?... This is really how you'd spend all this time?... I don't buy it... Running down court documents from pre-internet... contacting the families.. etc... Oh yeah.. just curious that's all.


Meatgrinder, it took all of 2 minutes to contact the families on Facebook.  Literally, two private facebook messages, you're making it sound like it was an arduous endeavor when it really wasnt.


uh huh... and the court docs? That answer is as deceptive as your association with LI. And pretty f*ckin selfish to be probing them with questions on FB... oh I'm a complete stranger but like to keep up on the bjj gossip. I know this is all pretty emotional stuff, but don't mind if I ask a few questions about that little rapey incident....

...and why people run outta there in the middle of the night?

...and who has outstanding arrest warrants?..

....and who's been cheating on their taxes?

...etc... etc..

 

 

 

Listen dude, at the end of the day you're just a guy behind a keyboard talking because you can, so me entertaining your questions is literally just that, me entertaining them.  I have absolutely no need to justify myself, or my actions to you, so lets please keep this frame of perspective.  In one instant its

 

"Oh, Lloyd is disgusting, he paid for the defense of Schultz and Maldonaldo"

And then when someone (me), wanted to know if he actually did do something as deplorable as that, and ask the family directly vs. relying on a rumor as my source of information (you), its:

"Pretty selfish to be probing them with questions on FB"

Its like got damn dude, which is it? Either im damned if I do, or im damned if I dont.  You're so focused on burning someone at the stake (whether it be Lloyd, or me in this case), you're failing to see that all i've said was if you're going to have a witch trial and burn someone, at least burn them because you have FACTS, not because someone pointed and said witch.

 

84

Firstly, Mr.Backaddict, chill. No one is accusing you of anything.

Secondly, I wasn't calling you a liar. I was just pointing out that you've shown that, at the least, you are friends with members of TLI and have trained there before. Your own post said you'd trained there a considerable amount of time. However, I didn't say you were TLI and a liar. And I've never referred to anyone in BJJ as "Master". I've trained with Gracies who didn't require to be addressed by the title. I always thought it was a TMA thing but that's neither here nor there. Maybe everyone calls LI that.

Lastly, if your goal is to get people to look at "the truth" and address LI with a fresh set of eyes, I don't see why you wouldn't post these records you possess. They'd help the cause you are advocating much more than random internet posts. Phone Post 3.0

85

Ok, I'll bring it back on track to the original context...

If they are bringing in a current TLI member into this event I will not be watching the event. So, if the event organizers are following this at all, hopefully they will at least take heed of the message that bringing involvement from Team Rape-rape is driving at least some interest AWAY from their event.

I will also make every effort to steer clear of any sponsors that have anything to do with TLI or its athletes.

86

MickColins - Firstly, Mr.Backaddict, chill. No one is accusing you of anything.

Secondly, I wasn't calling you a liar. I was just pointing out that you've shown that, at the least, you are friends with members of TLI and have trained there before. Your own post said you'd trained there a considerable amount of time. However, I didn't say you were TLI and a liar. And I've never referred to anyone in BJJ as "Master". I've trained with Gracies who didn't require to be addressed by the title. I always thought it was a TMA thing but that's neither here nor there. Maybe everyone calls LI that.

Lastly, if your goal is to get people to look at "the truth" and address LI with a fresh set of eyes, I don't see why you wouldn't post these records you possess. They'd help the cause you are advocating much more than random internet posts. Phone Post 3.0


My apologies if I came off harsh, sometimes it feels like im being attacked in this thread when there is no need to attack me.  My bad, I'll eat that, that one is on me.  As far as posting stuff, I didnt want to bother scanning documents so I gave the court case ID instead.  Im positive someone on this forum is an attorney, and if so, they have may have access to Nexus, which will be FAR more efficient than I could ever be in this regard.  I've done everything I could to make this simple for you guys outside of scanning this stuff for myself (at least in my opinion).



Outside of that, Ive developed fairly thick skin dealing with this forum over the years, but Meatgrinders post really pushed me over the edge a little and I had to remind him that while granted yes I may be trying to speak, at the end of the day, he's a nobody, just like I am, and there is absolutely no reason for him to use the kind of rhetoric that he was using considering all i've ever been was as polite as possible to everyone in this thread.



Again, my apologies bro.

87

BackAddict:

I said Lloyd HELPED paid for the defense. I didn't say he PAID for everything for the defense. Although someone else had already explained why he did that was due to his promises to those families that he would take care of them while they were with him. I am sure he also promised his female students that he would also "take care" of them too.

So what was wrong/incorrect about Georgette's info about the subpoenas and how the prosecutor/defense would use them? By the way, she is a lawyer so what exactly are your qualifications/credentials? Phone Post 3.0

88

MickColins - Also, your statement that you have met Lloyd but aren't a member of TLI is less than sincere. You have met Lloyd briefly, by your own admission, but knew his medal chaser cats and can tell insider info as to how that went down? And someone pointed out your Sherdog statement about being in TLI.

It kind of makes everything you say suspect. Phone Post 3.0
I think everything he says makes everything he says suspect. All this dime store neurolinguistics is painful to read. Phone Post 3.0

89
Hey Beer Man - 
MickColins - Also, your statement that you have met Lloyd but aren't a member of TLI is less than sincere. You have met Lloyd briefly, by your own admission, but knew his medal chaser cats and can tell insider info as to how that went down? And someone pointed out your Sherdog statement about being in TLI.

It kind of makes everything you say suspect. Phone Post 3.0
<span class="User-94317" id="userPost53830958">I think everything he says makes everything he says suspect. All this dime store neurolinguistics is painful to read. <img alt="Phone Post 3.0" border="0" src="/images/phone/apple.png" style="vertical-align:middle;" /></span></blockquote>

 

Im curious, could you please reference something that i've said that reminds you of dime store neurolinguistics? If i've said anything suspect, you are more than welcome to call my bluff, i'll be your huckleberry.  Outside of that, if what i'm saying is so painful to read, then why waste your time reading it? Wouldnt that be counter-productive?

 

90

BackAddict347x - 
MickColins - " I've remained neutral on EVERYTHING,"

From a brief search here and on Sherdog, you support TLI on both boards and defend Lloyd. I don't think you're as neutral as you think, my man.

And if you wanted to show these documents you state that reveal the truthiness of your position, scanning isn't very difficult. Hell, you don't even need to scan if you have an iPhone.

And while you aren't part of TLI as you say, you've apparently trained with Lloyd enough to comment on how he teaches and refer to him as "Master Lloyd" in one of your posts. You've also posted that you trained at TLI "a considerable amount of time" on Sherdog. Phone Post 3.0


From a brief search??!? I've been up front about everything, you dont need any brief searches to aid you in whatever quest you have to associate me more than I am with TLI.  However i'll indulge your points for the sake of clarity and transparency:



1. "From a brief search here and on Sherdog, you support TLI on both boards and defend Lloyd.  I dont think you're as neutral as you think, my man".



My last post on Sherdog was 2yrs ago, and that was during the time frame when people were leaving, and I was clearing up things regarding WHY they were leaving vs. what the public perception was.  Prior to that, my only post even mentioning Lloyd was in 2010 FIVE YEARS AGO, and if you look at the context of what I said, my time at the school was prior to that.  So we have what, a whopping 2 posts over there? Yea, definitely very supportive.  Here's the sherdog post in question:





You have to dig up posts from 5yrs ago that I not only acknowledged, but even referenced back on an earlier page, lol, yea ok.



2. "Refer to him as "Master Lloyd in one of your posts". 



- Ok? Who HASNT referred to him as Master Lloyd at some point or another, so whats your point? The general jist of what im seeing here is you're going to dig up some old posts from the past to try to find a way to say that im being an pologist.  One thing that you HAVENT done was taken to heart ANYTHING that i've said in this thread.  If I was a member of TLI, why would I hide it? For the most part at least through the colored belts they are still pushing strong, and even have Spriggs making noise at black belt.  So if I was a part of a team having competitive success why would I hide it for the sake of getting vote downs on a forum where the majority of their competitors dont post anyway? Come on man, that makes little to no sense, and its why I keep saying you're desperately grasping for something that just isnt there.  



Lastly, ive been very clear as to why im not scanning several documents.  I know scanning isnt difficult, just like I know following up on court case numbers isnt difficult, but because im not willing to just lay everything out red carpet style your upset.  So let me articulate this as clearly as I can, in this thread i've never defended Lloyds person, his character, or his business.  What I have done however was pointed out two ttruths that no matter how many times you gang up and vote me down, this will not change:



Fact 1: You're ONLY, I repeat ONLY source of information regarding Lloyds case is an old article from a website that has contradicted itself multiple times.  I've linked to the contradiction, hell, i've even done the work and screen pasted it here.  However not ONCE has it been mentioned, or referenced, its just been glossed over.  Maybe you dont address it because you know its easier to avoid the truth and keep the drama mongering, or maybe you dont address it because you're not actually reading anything im saying before pressing the quote button, who knows.  One thing that is for certain though, the contradiction isnt my personal stance or opinion, its an irrefutable fact, you guys just have decided to pick a side, and ignore the other.



Fact 2: Ive given more than enough information that anyone here could easily call my bluff and follow up on, but you refuse to do it.  Im fully aware of WHY most of you wont do it, all I've said was that the truth is easily obtainable, but nobody is interested in knowing what actually took place, people are interested in drama.  First it was Lloyd paid for Schultz and Maldonaldos defense, then when I mentioned that I contacted the families and asked through Facebook like everything else, that point got skipped over because you needed to find a new angle.



Like I said, im not defending anyone, all im saying is if you're going to condemn him, use a legit source first.


"Fact 1: You're ONLY, I repeat ONLY source of information regarding Lloyds case is an old article from a website that has contradicted itself multiple times."

-> Your

91

BackAddict347x - 
Denise - Backaddict, do you really find it difficult to understand why so many in the BJJ community are offended by Lloyd?


Honestly Denise when I first found out about everything I was as disgusted as everyone else, so yes, I do understand why people are offended by Lloyd.  The only thing i've said was if you're going to bash him, follow up on an accurate source of information first.  That was (and still is) my only point.  Not once have I defended him, or spoke to his character.  All i've said was use an accurate source of information, and i've even tried to share it.  The problem in this case (and I knew it'd be like this prior to me even responding to people), is that a portion of the community hated Lloyd long before people found out what happened in 89.  They hated the marketing, hated his website, hated that his students call him Master, they just hated everything in general, so this was just something to fuel that hatred and give it purpose.



One thing I do find curious though is if people hate him so much, why hasnt a single member from this thread said anything to his face at worlds or pans? Him and his crew are at most of these tournaments, and i've yet to see a single commotion from someone saying something to him.  Its usually LImp, Rape Irvin, etc. etc. online, but cricketts when they have an opportunity to say anything to him.



 


What's that going to accomplish? I mean seriously, that's a retort I would expect from a 15 year old. Lloyd isn't exactly known for being a diplomatic, level headed polite guy, and he already knows everyone hates him and his team. So what would the point of that be?

Lloyd is a douche. He knows it, and everyone knows it.

92
sannyasin - 
BackAddict347x - 
Denise - Backaddict, do you really find it difficult to understand why so many in the BJJ community are offended by Lloyd?
    <br />
    <p>
        <span class="User-340218" id="userPost53847602"><span class="User-296994" id="userPost53825649">Honestly Denise when I first found out about everything I was as disgusted as everyone else, so yes, I do understand why people are offended by Lloyd. &nbsp;The only thing i've said was if you're going to bash him, follow up on an accurate source of information first. &nbsp;That was (and still is) my only point. &nbsp;Not once have I defended him, or spoke to his character. &nbsp;All i've said was use an accurate source of information, and i've even tried to share it. &nbsp;The problem in this case (and I knew it'd be like this prior to me even responding to people), is that a portion of the community hated Lloyd long before people found out what happened in 89. &nbsp;They hated the marketing, hated his website, hated that his students call him Master, they just hated everything in general, so this was just something to fuel that hatred and give it purpose.</span></span></p>
    <p>
        <span class="User-340218" id="userPost53847602"><span class="User-296994" id="userPost53825649">One thing I do find curious though is if people hate him so much, why hasnt a single member from this thread said anything to his face at worlds or pans? Him and his crew are at most of these tournaments, and i've yet to see a single commotion from someone saying something to him. &nbsp;Its usually LImp, Rape Irvin, etc. etc. online, but cricketts when they have an opportunity to say anything to him.</span></span></p>
    <p>
        <span class="User-340218" id="userPost53847602"><span class="User-296994" id="userPost53825649">&nbsp;</span></span></p>
</blockquote>
<br />
<span class="User-340218" id="userPost53847602">What's that going to accomplish? I mean seriously, that's a retort I would expect from a 15 year old. Lloyd isn't exactly known for being a diplomatic, level headed polite guy, and he already knows everyone hates him and his team. So what would the point of that be?<br />
<br />
Lloyd is a douche. He knows it, and everyone knows it.</span></blockquote>

 

Just for the sake of clarity, when has Lloyd ever lashed out at anyone? You say he's not known for being a diplomatic, level headed, polite guy, but i've never seen any evidence, private nor public that would support what you're saying.  Contrarily, he's not only been open and forthcoming with information with me, but he's done the same to other people who were disgusted by the allegations, and were very outspoken about the situation (similar to whats happening here). 

In fact a great example of this would be one of Sherdogs most outspoken person regarding the allegations from the 89' case, up to now, Balto.  He regularly posts on Sherdog (and occassionally posts here), and is a respected member who like me, decided to separate fact from fiction, and base his opinions on the result of that, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Balto was instrumental in digging up alot of those news articles that you guys here reference as your "source", and Balto has recently had a change of heart regarding Lloyd AFTER he decided to pursue facts (and not news articles), as well as listening to Lloyds most recent podcast.  My posts from the past have been dug up on Sherdog, how about digging up his, and then asking him his take on this and how he feels now?

I say all of this to say that its not like im the only person coming to these conclusions pertaining Lloyd.  The more people dig for the truth, the more people actually find it.  Im only one of a few people who's actually bothered to try to figure out what actually happened, and not let personal bias or judgement get in the way of the facts.  I repeat, nothing more, nothing less.

Other than that, I have no beef with any of you guys, and all of the hostility really isnt very necessary considering my only goal is to bring the truth of what really happened to the forefront, a person like that shouldnt be attacked.