Background: got my blue in BJJ years ago, then stopped and did only judo in which I've since earned a black belt. Just recently returned to BJJ while continuing to do judo.
I. Gi standards: doesn't even need to be mentioned, but I will. All the judo schools I know will not allow students to wear...
-Gis covered in patches (e.g AP)
-Any gi that isn't white or blue (and sometimes even blue is pushing it)
-Mixed colors jacket/pants (e.g. white jacket, blue pants)
-Gis without "wizard sleeves" (basically all BJJ gis)
-Rash guards (unless you're a woman)
On the bright side, in my experience both BJJ and Judo schools are equally firm about not allowing filthy stinking gis on the mat.
II. Practices per week: most judo schools are open 2-3 days a week, whereas it isn't uncommon for BJJ schools to be open every day except Sunday. Also, not aware of many judo schools with morning classes.
III. Pricing: this is related to the above point. Judo schools are primarily run by volunteer sensei. For the most part, no one individual is making any money off of the $25-$40 monthly fees that students pay. In many cases, judo dojo operate from within a Japanese community center. For example, in Southern California alone, West Covina, Gardena, Norwalk, San Fernando Valley, Hollywood, Venice and other dojo all operate from within a Japanese Community/Cultural Center. Tenri in Boyle Heights is actually part of a church. Fees partly go to the community center or provide funding for the dojo (e.g. new mats, gis, maintenance, etc.). Incidentally, the Armenian clubs (e.g. Hayastan, Kenam's, GFC) tend to be more expensive because they are generally not part of a community center and are operating as a business. The facilities at Hayastan are extremely nice. Then again, it's $40/class if you're a guest. Somebody has to pay for that octagon, right? Meanwhile, Tenri is $5/class and it's not uncommon to see Hayastan students training there. Go figure. It's par for the course that BJJ academies are going to easily run over $100/month. I believe $150/month for unlimited is fairly standard in SoCal.
IV. Etiquette: though you can't very well go into a BJJ academy and act like a complete prick without suffering any consequences, judo dojo actively place more emphasis on tradition/etiquette than BJJ schools. Walking directly in front of a sensei while he's speaking to someone, tying your belt so that the front ends hang unevenly, showing up with a dirty gi, leaning against walls, smiling too much during training, exiting the mat without permission, not bowing properly....this is all stuff I've seen people get scolded for. At BJJ schools, the vibe is much more laid-back. For the record, I've seen plenty of kids get slapped upside the head at judo dojo, but never at a BJJ school.
V. Number of women: BJJ is significantly more popular with women than judo is based on my experiences.
VI. Skin infections: I feel like these are more prevalent at BJJ schools.
Getting sleepy and still trying to watch the rest of Day 4 live footage of judo world championships. Feel free to add your own comments about what you've observed. If I wrote anything that seems off to you, remember it's just my own experiences.
P.S. I'm still getting footlocked left and right in BJJ.
I have trained both as well. My judo sensei if pretty traditional and runs his school like mentioned above. He even criticizes the high level Japanese guys that wear the rash guard under their gi. It seems that the new school guys are a little less traditional.
Judo is also more well connected. We have guys coming to train at our dojo way more than at my bjj school. We have high level competitor seminars quite frequently. Though jiu jitsu does have the seminar circuit, I have noticed a lot of times most of the guys at the seminar all train in one association. My judo instructor invites every martial art school in my area when high level judo guys are in town. With jiu jitsu, I often hear about seminars after they have happened.
pedros judo center is full time, and i think its in line with bjj clubs pricing structure
The judo an bjj all resides in same dojo where I'm at. we have a very unique environment. I call it a zen dojo. it's a wilderness retreat that also provides kyokushin (that's the first/core discipline that was offered there), bjj, and judo.
there's tradition there but it's not overbearing. I would say above all it's about respect. nothing more.
we follow the traditions from past because that's how we've been taught. it's relaxed when it needs to be, like when you're doing hard sparring or speed uchikomis or something but generally in either bjj or judo, for us, there's just a level of respect.
feel free to voice your opinion and ask questions, but keep your mouth shut when instruction is happening and don't just feel free to offer shitty technique advice because you've been there for 3 months and wrestled a little bit in high school.
Mike Wazowski - The judo an bjj all resides in same dojo where I'm at. we have a very unique environment. I call it a zen dojo. it's a wilderness retreat that also provides kyokushin (that's the first/core discipline that was offered there), bjj, and judo.
there's tradition there but it's not overbearing. I would say above all it's about respect. nothing more.
we follow the traditions from past because that's how we've been taught. it's relaxed when it needs to be, like when you're doing hard sparring or speed uchikomis or something but generally in either bjj or judo, for us, there's just a level of respect.
feel free to voice your opinion and ask questions, but keep your mouth shut when instruction is happening and don't just feel free to offer shitty technique advice because you've been there for 3 months and wrestled a little bit in high school.
This.
I personally don't mind too much, but I know that some of the elder sensei get pissed off when someone comes in with wrestling experience (the less experience the more vocal they tend to be) and wants to demonstrate a "wrestling" counter to the technique being shown.
Seen some kids get told off for yawning when the sensei is breaking down a technique, or for having social time during randori.
Also, to the other post above, yes, Pedro's is one of the places American judoka train if they are serious about it.
This is one of the reasons I like Gracie Barra schools. I've trained in TMA's and Judo in the past and GB has incorporated a lot of those traditions such as:
1. Bow to Carlos Gracie Senior the center of the mat when you enter the training area.
2. Bow to Carlos Gracie Senior the center of the mat when you exit the training area.
3. Keep a respectful posture in the training area.
4. Classes begin with a formal bow to the instructor, with students lining up in descending grade order.
5. Classes end with a formal bow to the picture of Grand Master Carlos Gracie Senior, and then to the instructor.
6. All students must line up with the attendance card in hand at the beginning of the class.
7. During class, when the instructor is demonstrating the techniques, every student must sit or stand in good posture in seize.
8. For safety reasons, if you are late for class sit by the side of the training area and wait for the permission from the Professor.
9. For safety reasons, if you need to leave the mat or leave earlier you must ask permission from the Professor.
10. Bow to your partner before and after practice.
11. Talking should be kept to a minimum level and should relate to the class subject.
12. Absolutely no foul language inside the school.
13. Keep fingernails and toenails short for everyone’s safety.
14. All students, Instructors, Professors, and Visitors must wear the official Gracie Barra uniform. The uniform pants and top must be the same color.
15. It is mandatory to wear the official Gracie Barra black rash guard or Gracie Barra training shirt underneath the kimono.
16. It is mandatory to have underwear underneath the gi pants.
17. For No Gi Classes, students must wear a Gracie Barra black boardshort (or black short) as well as Gracie Barra Black Rash Guard or Gracie Barra training shirt.
18. The uniform must be clean at all times. A dirty uniform is a sign of disrespect.
19. The uniform must be worn at all times.
20. When tying the uniform, students must face the edge of the mats.
21. The belt represents your progress. Keep it on.
22. Refer to non black belt instructors as “Coaches”.
23. Refer to black-belt instructors as “Professor” and to Carlos Gracie Jr. as “Mestre”.
24. All metal objects, jewelry, piercing, necklaces and other items should be removed.
25. No shoes, food or drink on the mat.
26. No cell phones in the training area.
27. All students and Instructors must wear shoes when walking outside of the training area.
Some of it is overkill, imo. But I think the good outweighs the bad in this list.
justsomeguy2 - This is one of the reasons I like Gracie Barra schools. I've trained in TMA's and Judo in the past and GB has incorporated a lot of those traditions such as:
1. Bow to Carlos Gracie Senior the center of the mat when you enter the training area.
2. Bow to Carlos Gracie Senior the center of the mat when you exit the training area.
3. Keep a respectful posture in the training area.
4. Classes begin with a formal bow to the instructor, with students lining up in descending grade order.
5. Classes end with a formal bow to the picture of Grand Master Carlos Gracie Senior, and then to the instructor.
6. All students must line up with the attendance card in hand at the beginning of the class.
7. During class, when the instructor is demonstrating the techniques, every student must sit or stand in good posture in seize.
8. For safety reasons, if you are late for class sit by the side of the training area and wait for the permission from the Professor.
9. For safety reasons, if you need to leave the mat or leave earlier you must ask permission from the Professor.
10. Bow to your partner before and after practice.
11. Talking should be kept to a minimum level and should relate to the class subject.
12. Absolutely no foul language inside the school.
13. Keep fingernails and toenails short for everyone’s safety.
14. All students, Instructors, Professors, and Visitors must wear the official Gracie Barra uniform. The uniform pants and top must be the same color.
15. It is mandatory to wear the official Gracie Barra black rash guard or Gracie Barra training shirt underneath the kimono.
16. It is mandatory to have underwear underneath the gi pants.
17. For No Gi Classes, students must wear a Gracie Barra black boardshort (or black short) as well as Gracie Barra Black Rash Guard or Gracie Barra training shirt.
18. The uniform must be clean at all times. A dirty uniform is a sign of disrespect.
19. The uniform must be worn at all times.
20. When tying the uniform, students must face the edge of the mats.
21. The belt represents your progress. Keep it on.
22. Refer to non black belt instructors as “Coaches”.
23. Refer to black-belt instructors as “Professor” and to Carlos Gracie Jr. as “Mestre”.
24. All metal objects, jewelry, piercing, necklaces and other items should be removed.
25. No shoes, food or drink on the mat.
26. No cell phones in the training area.
27. All students and Instructors must wear shoes when walking outside of the training area.
Some of it is overkill, imo. But I think the good outweighs the bad in this list.
Ninety percent of this is just plain stupid.
One of the things I appreciate most about BJJ is the lack of tradition. It's focus--and initial reason for popularity--is on hard work and effective techniques.
You show your respect with the blood and sweat you leave on the mat. Not by bowing to each other or addressing people with arbitrary titles.
Gi standards are ridiculous. Unless you're supplying it for me, it shouldn't matter if my jacket and pants match or if I have patches sewed on. It's a physical activity, not a fashion show. No rash guard? Why not? Wearing or not wearing a rash guard has absolutely no bearing on anything. Smiling too much during training? Seriously?
Take a shower, wash your clothes, show up on the mat, be respectful and train hard. That's what's needed.
These sound reasonable to me. Not sure if I agree with the mandatory uniform and rash uniform. If money isn't an issue the its ok. I do hate it when they end the class without a group bow. All this etiquette really helps from character. Be respectful to your training partners.
I do think that some of the traditionalism in judo can be taken too far. And I believe this is partly to blame for poor attendance in some judo dojo.
I've seen new adults join class, walk in between a sensei and the person he's talking to, and then get yelled at and told to come back and walk behind the sensei. Usually this is followed by a WTF? look on the new guy's face who may or may not return the next class. Or adults getting lectured because they left the mat to take a piss without telling anybody.
The "Keep It Playful" philosophy doesn't seem to have a home in most of the judo dojo I've been at. Smiling and laughing are generally discouraged by the elder sensei.
A while back there was a high-school football player who came to class. He talked a lot and kept asking questions that annoyed the head sensei (e.g. "What if the guy does this? Why do you do it that way?"), but it was more-or-less harmless. Just by strength and spazzing, he was able to score on some of the white, green, and brown belts during randori. When it was my turn to do newaza with him, I swept and mounted him and stayed like that until he got tired. A few minutes later, the head sensei comes over to me pissed off saying, "Excuse me, we do not baby anybody at this dojo; that kid has a fucking attitude. Next time you do not go light." That made me mad. I get yelled at enough at my job by someone who actually pays me; don't need to put up with that shit at judo. Besides, what did he want me to do, put this 18-year old newb white belt in a jigoku-jime?
I don't disagree with all of the traditional aspects, and I think they can be good for kids. But when it's between full-grown adults, there doesn't need to be any condescending attitude from one party to another over things as trivial as a belt that isn't tied properly or a rash guard underneath a gi. Just my opinion...
"I've seen new adults join class, walk in between a sensei and the person he's talking to, and then get yelled at and told to come back and walk behind the sensei. Usually this is followed by a WTF? look on the new guy's face who may or may not return the next class. Or adults getting lectured because they left the mat to take a piss without telling anybody."
See, to me this has nothing to do with being a sensei. It's just common courtesy not to walk between two people having a conversation, whether one of them is a sensei or not.
Sucks you got yelled at. I'd say that's pretty uncalled for.
Seong gyeong - I do think that some of the traditionalism in judo can be taken too far. And I believe this is partly to blame for poor attendance in some judo dojo.
I've seen new adults join class, walk in between a sensei and the person he's talking to, and then get yelled at and told to come back and walk behind the sensei. Usually this is followed by a WTF? look on the new guy's face who may or may not return the next class. Or adults getting lectured because they left the mat to take a piss without telling anybody.
The "Keep It Playful" philosophy doesn't seem to have a home in most of the judo dojo I've been at. Smiling and laughing are generally discouraged by the elder sensei.
A while back there was a high-school football player who came to class. He talked a lot and kept asking questions that annoyed the head sensei (e.g. "What if the guy does this? Why do you do it that way?"), but it was more-or-less harmless. Just by strength and spazzing, he was able to score on some of the white, green, and brown belts during randori. When it was my turn to do newaza with him, I swept and mounted him and stayed like that until he got tired. A few minutes later, the head sensei comes over to me pissed off saying, "Excuse me, we do not baby anybody at this dojo; that kid has a fucking attitude. Next time you do not go light." That made me mad. I get yelled at enough at my job by someone who actually pays me; don't need to put up with that shit at judo. Besides, what did he want me to do, put this 18-year old newb white belt in a jigoku-jime?
I don't disagree with all of the traditional aspects, and I think they can be good for kids. But when it's between full-grown adults, there doesn't need to be any condescending attitude from one party to another over things as trivial as a belt that isn't tied properly or a rash guard underneath a gi. Just my opinion...
To be honest, the sensei sounds kinda like a jerk, and he doesn't sound very traditional; a "traditional" sensei doesn't usually use F-bombs in class. Just because somone is teaching Judo or Aikido or Japanese Jujutsu, doesn't necessarily mean they teach in a traditional manner.
When you take the traditional Japanese style of teaching and try to apply it in the West, ALL manner of things can go wrong. And a lot of those things that go wrong are what give TMAs a bad reputation in the West. The art is out of it's "proper" cultural context and the way it is taught has to be re-negotitated in the new culture. On one end of the spectrum, some instructors like to pretend they are in Japan and everyone is Japanese -- that creates problems. Same with, on the other end of the spectrum, those who try to teach the art just like any other sport or physical activity and remove the martial traditions which are woven throughout the art. That has consequences too.
Christophr -justsomeguy2 - This is one of the reasons I like Gracie Barra schools. I've trained in TMA's and Judo in the past and GB has incorporated a lot of those traditions such as:
1. Bow to Carlos Gracie Senior the center of the mat when you enter the training area.
2. Bow to Carlos Gracie Senior the center of the mat when you exit the training area.
3. Keep a respectful posture in the training area.
4. Classes begin with a formal bow to the instructor, with students lining up in descending grade order.
5. Classes end with a formal bow to the picture of Grand Master Carlos Gracie Senior, and then to the instructor.
6. All students must line up with the attendance card in hand at the beginning of the class.
7. During class, when the instructor is demonstrating the techniques, every student must sit or stand in good posture in seize.
8. For safety reasons, if you are late for class sit by the side of the training area and wait for the permission from the Professor.
9. For safety reasons, if you need to leave the mat or leave earlier you must ask permission from the Professor.
10. Bow to your partner before and after practice.
11. Talking should be kept to a minimum level and should relate to the class subject.
12. Absolutely no foul language inside the school.
13. Keep fingernails and toenails short for everyone’s safety.
14. All students, Instructors, Professors, and Visitors must wear the official Gracie Barra uniform. The uniform pants and top must be the same color.
15. It is mandatory to wear the official Gracie Barra black rash guard or Gracie Barra training shirt underneath the kimono.
16. It is mandatory to have underwear underneath the gi pants.
17. For No Gi Classes, students must wear a Gracie Barra black boardshort (or black short) as well as Gracie Barra Black Rash Guard or Gracie Barra training shirt.
18. The uniform must be clean at all times. A dirty uniform is a sign of disrespect.
19. The uniform must be worn at all times.
20. When tying the uniform, students must face the edge of the mats.
21. The belt represents your progress. Keep it on.
22. Refer to non black belt instructors as “Coaches”.
23. Refer to black-belt instructors as “Professor” and to Carlos Gracie Jr. as “Mestre”.
24. All metal objects, jewelry, piercing, necklaces and other items should be removed.
25. No shoes, food or drink on the mat.
26. No cell phones in the training area.
27. All students and Instructors must wear shoes when walking outside of the training area.
Some of it is overkill, imo. But I think the good outweighs the bad in this list.
Ninety percent of this is just plain stupid.
This list is why BJJ has jumped the shark and gone full retard.
Thats funny Gracie Barra now bows to Carlos sr because Carlos & Helio did not want bowing in there school in Rio when they were alive.
rayonyx7 -Christophr -justsomeguy2 - This is one of the reasons I like Gracie Barra schools. I've trained in TMA's and Judo in the past and GB has incorporated a lot of those traditions such as:
1. Bow to Carlos Gracie Senior the center of the mat when you enter the training area.
2. Bow to Carlos Gracie Senior the center of the mat when you exit the training area.
3. Keep a respectful posture in the training area.
4. Classes begin with a formal bow to the instructor, with students lining up in descending grade order.
5. Classes end with a formal bow to the picture of Grand Master Carlos Gracie Senior, and then to the instructor.
6. All students must line up with the attendance card in hand at the beginning of the class.
7. During class, when the instructor is demonstrating the techniques, every student must sit or stand in good posture in seize.
8. For safety reasons, if you are late for class sit by the side of the training area and wait for the permission from the Professor.
9. For safety reasons, if you need to leave the mat or leave earlier you must ask permission from the Professor.
10. Bow to your partner before and after practice.
11. Talking should be kept to a minimum level and should relate to the class subject.
12. Absolutely no foul language inside the school.
13. Keep fingernails and toenails short for everyone’s safety.
14. All students, Instructors, Professors, and Visitors must wear the official Gracie Barra uniform. The uniform pants and top must be the same color.
15. It is mandatory to wear the official Gracie Barra black rash guard or Gracie Barra training shirt underneath the kimono.
16. It is mandatory to have underwear underneath the gi pants.
17. For No Gi Classes, students must wear a Gracie Barra black boardshort (or black short) as well as Gracie Barra Black Rash Guard or Gracie Barra training shirt.
18. The uniform must be clean at all times. A dirty uniform is a sign of disrespect.
19. The uniform must be worn at all times.
20. When tying the uniform, students must face the edge of the mats.
21. The belt represents your progress. Keep it on.
22. Refer to non black belt instructors as “Coaches”.
23. Refer to black-belt instructors as “Professor” and to Carlos Gracie Jr. as “Mestre”.
24. All metal objects, jewelry, piercing, necklaces and other items should be removed.
25. No shoes, food or drink on the mat.
26. No cell phones in the training area.
27. All students and Instructors must wear shoes when walking outside of the training area.
Some of it is overkill, imo. But I think the good outweighs the bad in this list.
Ninety percent of this is just plain stupid.
This list is why BJJ has jumped the shark and gone full retard.
This should be taken with a grain of salt. I can't imagine all GB schools are like that plus there are other schools who integrate some of these same practices for the sake of business.
When I started in the mid 90's, the only people who trained were people who either wanted to fight or saw the Gracie's destroy the myth of TMA.
As Bjj becomes more popular, there is a need to boilerplate practices so customers are comfortable with training as part of a martial art.
The old ways don't work with today's customers' expectations. 
at my gym all the coaches had a tma background before they started bjj which has colored how they run the place. Also this being australia this also affects how it is run. Basically everyone is a mate the coaches are coach or their name respect comes from what you do not the color of your belt no questions are off limits. We all shake hands at the end of a session and everyone says "cheers cunt" and then we go home.
So the part about bowing to Carlos Gracie .... is or isn't a joke? At first I was laughing, but then I thought, perhaps this is meant to be serious? Clarification is needed.
shen -Seong gyeong - I do think that some of the traditionalism in judo can be taken too far. And I believe this is partly to blame for poor attendance in some judo dojo.
I've seen new adults join class, walk in between a sensei and the person he's talking to, and then get yelled at and told to come back and walk behind the sensei. Usually this is followed by a WTF? look on the new guy's face who may or may not return the next class. Or adults getting lectured because they left the mat to take a piss without telling anybody.
The "Keep It Playful" philosophy doesn't seem to have a home in most of the judo dojo I've been at. Smiling and laughing are generally discouraged by the elder sensei.
A while back there was a high-school football player who came to class. He talked a lot and kept asking questions that annoyed the head sensei (e.g. "What if the guy does this? Why do you do it that way?"), but it was more-or-less harmless. Just by strength and spazzing, he was able to score on some of the white, green, and brown belts during randori. When it was my turn to do newaza with him, I swept and mounted him and stayed like that until he got tired. A few minutes later, the head sensei comes over to me pissed off saying, "Excuse me, we do not baby anybody at this dojo; that kid has a fucking attitude. Next time you do not go light." That made me mad. I get yelled at enough at my job by someone who actually pays me; don't need to put up with that shit at judo. Besides, what did he want me to do, put this 18-year old newb white belt in a jigoku-jime?
I don't disagree with all of the traditional aspects, and I think they can be good for kids. But when it's between full-grown adults, there doesn't need to be any condescending attitude from one party to another over things as trivial as a belt that isn't tied properly or a rash guard underneath a gi. Just my opinion...
To be honest, the sensei sounds kinda like a jerk, and he doesn't sound very traditional; a "traditional" sensei doesn't usually use F-bombs in class. Just because somone is teaching Judo or Aikido or Japanese Jujutsu, doesn't necessarily mean they teach in a traditional manner.
When you take the traditional Japanese style of teaching and try to apply it in the West, ALL manner of things can go wrong. And a lot of those things that go wrong are what give TMAs a bad reputation in the West. The art is out of it's "proper" cultural context and the way it is taught has to be re-negotitated in the new culture. On one end of the spectrum, some instructors like to pretend they are in Japan and everyone is Japanese -- that creates problems. Same with, on the other end of the spectrum, those who try to teach the art just like any other sport or physical activity and remove the martial traditions which are woven throughout the art. That has consequences too.
Good post, I understand what you're saying. VU
I agree that bjj generally has a more relaxed and chilled attitude, but I think it varies in between different clubs and countries.
I trained in Israel under Shani Hershko (who is now the women's national team coach). We had just as many girls as guys, no problem with rashguards or mixed pants/gi, training everyday and mornings as well and not as strict a mindset as you're describing.
However my case could be the exception.