"Oh its simple; I would just....."

In complete agreement KWJ and lautauro!

i train in karate/kickboxing & did 2 free weeks of judo.i learned alot of useful ish from judo IN ONLY 2 WEEKS i only learned like 3 throws & 2 chokes which seem very useful. i even used some o-soto in my kickboxsparing class. & the principal of judo i found to be very intresting & effective. the ground game of it we only wrestled like 1 minute 3 set type of deal but the sensi pushed us to quickly submit the guy & not "wrestlearound" so i guess that was useful. the only problem was that it was to expensive/i didn't had the time for it/ & it wsa more of a competitive type of judo not streetdefense which is what im looking for.

sorry this might be long. but a while back while i was doing karate/kickboxing i got into a fight with my girlfreinds ex. i didn't use any of my karate/kickboxing moves.but i used some principals of it. here's how it went. i got up in the kids face asked him why hellcalled my g/f a bitch & not to do so anymore. i saw him go for a haymaker. i quickly headbutted him to avoid getitng hit in the face(cause streetpeople only hit for the face)the head butt caught him by surprise by this time i threw a quick reverse headlock & started pounding his face with my forefist(karate) security broke it up(they just pushed us)the kid got loose, ran at me threw a wild hookshot. i sliped it(kickboxing/boxing) then security broke it up. if my instructor was there i would of probably got yelled at for not doing anymoves but yet i used some concept of the art/form. next time i'll just eyegouge.


the basic priciples is what will pull you out of 90% of the shit you get caught in, techs are auxilliary.


You are describing the "magic pill/magic wand" syndrome. Ie. practicing a grappling art is the magic pill that instantly makes you able to takedown anyone at will and finish them. Or since your art was developed by Hawaiian streetfighters you instantly become immune to takedowns and able to counter grappling with "dirty tactics" that are not allowed in the UFC. All arts have some element of this "magical" thinking, part of it is the spiel for marketing, sometimes it is just the self-talk to convince the person that he doesn't need to cross train. Or that you can be a bad ass by association.

Me, I'm never guilty of this... have I mentioned I train at Performance Quest Gym?

The worst is when they talk about doing something from
a movie, or some complicated gun disarm they saw off
this internet sight/got shown by some guy at work.

Since everyone is talking about cross training I'll sling this question in here instead of making a new thread. (I hope it's not been asked before) Where would everyone suggest I start to look at ground fighting? I'm a striker who has done zero ground work. I only train for self defence, not competition, so what is the most effective groundfighting styles to look at? I don't really know anything about ground fighting so I don't know where to start.This is the biggest gap in my training so I'd really appreciate a bit of a shove in the right direction. Thanks in advance for any replies.

weell, your choices are BJJ, wrestling, Judo/Sambo, Shootfighting.....what's closest to you? What can you afford. Realize that whicever you pick will have a 'gap' missing that will need to be trained perhaps separately. BJJ- usually no takedowns, wrestling - usually no subs, Judo - limited groundwork, Sambo - usually no chokes etc. All of them no strikes, but you've already got that taken care of.

Go to the local schools, see which one you like the most. Many schools curiculam depends on the teacher, and there are considerations like location and price. Just see what works for you.

I've heard this line many times. Hear are some real-life examples: 1)He'd never take me down 'cause I'd knock him out with my punches. 2)He'd never get past my kicks for the takedown. 3)If he managed to take me down, I'd bite, eye-gouge and grab his groin. After hearing these claims (usually in reference to why Royce, of all people, could never beat them) I ask them to demonstrate their ability on me. I've had a lot of guys balk at the thought of someone actually challenging them, but some guys actually went for it. It ended the same way EVERY time.

1) We square off.
2) I close the gap despite the kicks and punches (sometimes I get hit, sometimes I don't)
3) We go to the ground at which point I control his body from the top.
4) Attempts made to bite, eye-gouge or grab my groin are thwarted and I demonstrate how easily I could employ those very same tactics while remaining in complete control over them.
5) They concede defeat and admit they were surprised at how easily they were proven wrong. They're never quite the same after that experience...

Unfortunately, some people have gone to the other extreme over the effectiveness of grappling arts and claim strikers have no chance against them. Again I've been able to demonstrate to them that with the right footwork, the right strikes, good wrestling takedown defense and good clinching it IS possible to keep the fight standing against a grappler. I try to emphasize at this point the value of cross-training but it's obvious some people just never get it, even when you beat them over the head with the truth. *sigh*


why is it some martial arts have 10,000 techniques for a wrist grab, but can defeat a hode trophy winning
wrestler because they can "poke him in the eye?"

"They're never quite the same after that experience... "LOFL.

"I try to emphasize at this point the value of cross-training but it's obvious some people just never get it". LOL. Man, you're just like me dude. I am constantly educating the 'strikers on the effectiveness of grappling, and the grapplers on the effectiveness of striking. I'm like Mr. evils advocate Whenever someone say one doesn't work, I immediately become 'what doesn't work' and try some tough love education!

FUnny thing Chris is I had a similar discussion a little while back at our BJJ school with this kid who was talking smack about strikers/striking in general. he was bragging about how he almost got into a fight on the basketball court, and was ready to take some guy down and tap him out.
This was his first day in class & he had apparently done some shootfighting prior. So when I asked what he'd do if the guy wouldn't be taken down & struck with him, be basically answeredd with the "BJJ & Sootfighting is superior to any striking so it doesn't matter". So I asked him to take me down. He couldn't. I then offered to show him how I could strike him while he was busy 'trying' to take me down and 'that's cool' was his reply. he never came back to class though.

hmmmm, my philosophy is

basicly be ready for anything and remember the basic JKD principal "absorb what is usefull, and throw away what is not"

my school has a great program (bjj, jkd/jun fan, fma, and Muay Thai) most people there like to speacialize but i prefer to try to gather as much from each art as possible to be ready for whatever happens. One of the things I've liked about my instructor from the beginings is he shows the regular techiques and follow ups, and then adds in the street variations, or ring variations (depending on the rules and if it's gi or no gi). In the street variation he likes to bring up the old foot job, and how if u have a set bjj stratagy you've got to be aware your opponent might have friends that don't like u beating on their buddy, or the ground (if't its on a hill, concrete, in the road, or in some crack alley with needles and broken bottles arround) and a point I always try to make to the newbies who have "mastered" their winning move is, someone on the street can just punch u in the nuts if u try to put them in your guard and have a friend jump in at any time.

I prefer to stay on my feet as long as possible, and return to my feet asap. on the ground if I were going for something i hope i'd be smart enough on the street to start out with a eye gouge, groin strike, or judo chop to the ole adams apple and then try a armbar or something
basicly quick fast and in a hurry, the JKD/FMA/Silat meathod ;-)

"judo chop".....? Is there a judo chop in judo?


hey I saw Fred Flinstone do it once in a dream sequince, and I've seen austin powers pull it off more than a few times. So it must be legit

Fair enough, in my experience it leads to scoffing (mostly unconsciously) and the famous 'style v. style' debate.

"Oh its simple; I would just...." How many have heard this sentence when talking a fellow practioner of martial arts? Unless you are an absolute beginer you've bound to heard it more times that you can count. In fact, one simply has to look at this very website to see this very same sentence being said over and over. However, the purpose of my thread is more specific.

A few months ago I was spending alittle time talking to a couple at the end of my BJJ classes and the subject of self defense came up. During the talk, I asked them what their "strategy" for street defense was. Both of them simply looked at me and stated "Oh its simple; I would just take them down and finish the fight on the ground." Ahhh, that beautiful sentence had once made its appearance. After hearing this, I, of course, hit them with a follow up question. "Is this your entire game plan?" From here I kindly pointed out that their takedowns weren't the strongest part of their arsenal and honestly, their ground skills are still in the early developmental stages. We also discussed that there is alot more to fighting than simply "taking someone down and finishing the fight there".

This talk and several others that have followed in the recent months has, from what I have seen, caused them to take a more "all encompassing" approach to their training. One has constatntly asked me about drills for improving other aspects of his game and the other has taken the oppertunity to do some training in other skill sets not found at our school.

I would take itothers have had experiences similar to mine. Anyone care to share or add their opinions to what I've posted?


BTW, if I'm just rambling feel free to ignore me. ;-)

Chris, I don't have a problem with the line/critiquing the moves.

I have a problem when every move/strategy is scoffed at and in the end you don't have any options for a situation because you're afraid you will lose.

I don't believe anyone is advocating the idea of "scoffing" at every startegy. My point is, unles you have the actual skills and athletic ability to make your strategy viable, you need to avoid making and even worse, believing such comments as "Its simple"