I just recently watched this fight via Kazaa and I must say, Ken was pretty scary back then. For the two of you that haven't seen it, Ken shows good wrestling and submission skill by taking down Bas and quickly getting a flashy spinaround kneebar.
Anyway, the reason I'm writing this is not to join his fan club but to ask what was the deal with his reaction to beating Bas? The clip I saw showed him giving a lengthy dirty look at Bas (who was still on his back). Was that about anything in particular? I thought everybody liked Bas.
thats just ken
If I am a BJJ whitebelt with 6 months experience, and I grapple a guy with one weeks experience in BJJ then the submissions I would pull off would be scary. Ken only got the knee bar because few people at the time knew what it was or the defense to it. These days everybody knows how to do it and that is why shammy hasn't won a match in quite a while.
Hi KKM
Bas was new to Pancrase and was essentially just a kickboxer trying o learn the ground game.
Thats why Ken looked like a world beater.
Rutten had 10 months of pancrase experience and 6 fights when he fought shamrock. He had one loss and one win by submission at that time. He had already started his submission training, but wasn't too knowledgable about it yet. The RNC he got caught with then was new to him. That sub came in around the 16 minute mark.
Rutten supposedly said that he would beat ken bad if they fought again and that he only lost due to his inexperience. Proof was the time of the sub he was caught in. Also, in Ken's last fight, he'd broken Leon Djik's leg with a heel hook. Dijk and Rutten trained together from what I remember.
6 months later when he fought Ken again, ken subbed him in 1 minute flat with that flashy kneebar.
nah, I think the Ken Shamrock fights excluding those with Bas were worked.
Ken looked like he was just hopped up on vitamin S and litle too much of the nose candy. Poor Bas looked like he got his knee cranked pretty bad in that fight.
Interesting sidenote to that fight, Ken had an opportunity for a sweet reverse figure four leg lock when Bas tried to defend that knee bar.
There was some ugly-looking injuries from leg-locks back then... I agree Shamrock was a scary dude, it seemed like 50/50 if you were ever gonna walk again
"in Ken's last fight, he'd broken Leon Djik's leg with a heel hook."
I thought that was totally uncalled for. Shamrock should have at least given Djik a chance to submit instead of making Djik's ankle do a 360 degree turn. Nasty fucking injury.
Spladdel, it was a job. Pretty decent little fight, then suddenly and for no reason whatsoever, Shamrock stops moving and drops his hands, Vale throws like 3-4 snap round kicks to the head. I think shamrock was really out, but it was a "fix" for sure.
People used to say pancrase had a lot of works, there were too many injuries IMO for real works. Shamrock broke like 5-6 fighters I think. Rutten did too, as did Frank shamrock.
I do know shamrock admitted to jobbing a few pancrase fights, he would play with some fighters to make the matches go longer, see his Hume fight for that. A few other early ones looked like he took people longer to make it more exciting. I'm fairly sure he did this with Rutten in their first fight. He had a lot of close sub attempts that looked like all they required was some effort to get in.
He also gave up his title to Minoru Suzuke before a UFC match. It was supposed to be so that if he lost his UFC fight, pancrase wouldn't look bad. If you watch that fight, Ken slaps on an armbar, has it fully extended with his knees locked, holds it for a second, then opens his legs and lets go of the arm with both hands, Suzuki spins for a kneebar and Ken taps even though he was close to the ropes.
"Bas was new to Pancrase and was essentially just a kickboxer trying o learn the ground game."
Okay, can all of you Bas jock riders now say the same about Mo's matches with Bas now?