Below is a link to a lengthy article that deals primarily with attempts to sanction MMA in Ontario.
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Fighting/MixedMartialArts/2008/02/22/4868565-sun.html
well we got mma on the indian reservations so as in quebec it has started the same way. anyway hayashi can't live forever can he?
It seems doubtful that Hayashi's mind will be changed.
What is the process like to have the law changed?
Was that just the sound of Showdown Joe convulsing and crashing to the
floor?
Smelling salts, quick!
At this point it appears to me that Hayashi is being purposely obtuse in simply refusing to admit he's wrong and has been wrong for years. There is no benefit for him to NOT allow MMA to be sanctioned in Ontario. He justifies his ignorance to by hiding behind a veil of self percieved moral superiority.
I'm convinced that it's his own pride and ego that are preventing MMA from moving forard in Ontario, he should be ashamed of himself, and the legacy he's going to be remembered for. Eventually MMA will be legalized in Ontario and Ken Hayashi will always be remembered as an ignorant fool.
Welcome to the world of Showdown Joe since 1998...:(
There are options, but it doesn't like like educating Hayashi is working.
Forum member 'What' stating it best in a previous thread, when he spoke about government employees.
If anyone wants to help change Section 83 as well as the section in the Ontario Athletics Control Act, which defines 'Boxing with The Hands and Feet', I'm all ears.
At the moment, I would love to get information on what it takes to change a law (both Federally and Provincially).
I'm sure money, lawyers etc are involved, but if anyone knows the process, contact me at joe@showdown.ca
As for Ken Hayashi, if his job is in jeoporady, he would change his stance; no ifs, ands or buts. At the moment, everyone surrounding him and above him are in agreement. If that changes, believe me, everything else will change.
I would love his job...:)
Hiyashi is not the person who can change the situation.
His job is to enforce the rules he has been given.
Contact the minister in charge directly. Do not deal with underlings.
Anyone working on this that thinks negotiating with Hiyashi is the way to go is missing the way things work in Government completely.
Agreed, go after the minister in charge. That will be more effective. We need to get him drunk and then take scandalous pics for blackmail.
As an aside, sec 83 does not need changing.
since 96 Ive had to travel outside of Ontario to promote, manage, compete and support MMA. I have become accustomed to this and put my energy towards growing my business and MMA with the tools I have. That said, every few months I touch base with Ken H's bosss to say whats up ...yup just did another show in Quebec, yup just dropped XXXX amount of cash in Quebec, yup there were no real injuries, yup i had to drive 7 hours each way to do so, yup im still a resident of Ontario....
p
There's a group going through the proper channels to get the sport
sanctioned here. From what I was told, there is a VERY good chance we'll
see a major organization hold an event in Ontario before the end of 2008.
Said organization has been in talks with the group that is spearheading
this initiative, so it isn't just "talk", as some might consider it.
Things are being done legally outside of Ken's control that will change the
face of the game.
Hayashi says he has nothing against MMA but when he contacts other provincial athletic organizations and does deals with them to screw fighters over that tells me it's personal.
I think he's upset that most fighters have deemed Karate an
unnecessary discipline to train in to be successful in MMA. I equate it to
"It's my ball and I'm taking it home".
Pete Rodley,
That is an excellent strategy, keep the pressure on!
To get it sanctioned, I guess it really depends on who the people involved are and how they present it.
Judging by the way the UFC 83 tix sold out, if you were to try and get an event in ONT, say Toronto, I would say look at the Rogers centre.
Reason being is because a potential sell out (55,000) at the Skydome/Rogers Centre digs deeper to the core than just trying to get it sanctioned through some jackass who cant admit hes been wrong because hes an ego maniac.
Filling up the Rogers centre would be a huge event and I would imagine having Rogers Communications/Ted Rogers on your side saying the GOVT would collect said amt of dollars would reach deeperf than Ken Hayashi.
I am just brainstorming here, but sometimes its more who you know than what you know.
If you can get the right people alligned with you, you just may reach deeper than just Ken Hayashi.
Maybe present an economic report to the Mayors of both Ottawa and Toronto (travel/tourism dollars, tax dollars, dollars spent within the GTA or Ottawa communities) on the benifits of holding a UFC event in those cities.
As bad it it sounds, the world revolves around money. If Dana White wrote a check today to Hayashi for a million dollars, I guarantee Joe Silva would be working on the matchmaking tomorrow and there would be an event in whichever city in ONT sometime in the near future.
Everyone has a price and so does Hayashi and the people above him.
I honestly don't get why people are so confused. Hayashi wants his job to stay the way it is - little work, decent pay check. That's it, period.
Hayashi says we need amateur mma and s83 and the athletic control act changed so that's the way it will stay until he chooses to retire. Maybe the new guy will be different, maybe not. Until then he'll do everything he can to stop pro mma. There's no man behind the curtain (e.g. the Minister) - it's on Hayashi alone no matter what he says. And please stop with the theories of how to convince him. Everything has been tried. Hayashi knows the game and he's playing it well. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THE OAC AND THE OAC IS HAYASHI.
So it's on us to co-operate with the OAC and do what we can to help move the process along. We CANNOT help change the laws. There are ways to try and initiate the process, but it takes forever and isn't easy to do. Hayashi has the power to amend Ontario's athletic control act himself. It says that right in the act! There's an amendment to s83 that's been sitting with the feds for 2 years now. Unfortunately, it only talks about amateur combat sports and not pro so that likely won't change much.
I hear people tell me every day that they know someone who's looking into having an event (off the reserves) in Ontario. Dream on. Honestly, it kind of pisses me off because it distracts and hurts the ones that are trying to make real progress through legitimate ways. Ontario has mainly Hayashi to blame for MMA not being sanctioned by now, put it also should point the finger back at itself for spewing a lot of talk and rhetoric, but not having properly listened and done things the proper way.
I really hope I'm wrong and one day Hayashi changes his stance, gets bribed, retires, gets pressured into etc.... But, I see no reason to believe that as every thing he's doing seems to point in the opposite direction. So us at OMMAA will do our best to push amateur through until we hit the next wall they decide to create for us. But, it's not easy when you've got so few people to help, bills to pay along the way and a bunch of people telling you that what you're doing is pointless.
I've been wondering lately, are people even going to care when/if amateur mma gets sanctioned if they can drive to an indian reserve to fight under professional rules. I support and like a lot of the guys connected with those shows. Problem is, I don't think there's going to be any insurance that will payout for a non gov't sanctioned event. In other words, when something happens (and don't kid yourself because it eventually will) MMA in the province of Ontario is going to be in an even worse situation than it is today.
In short, we've got a real mess of a situation here.
"Honestly, it kind of pisses me off because it distracts and hurts the ones that are trying to make real progress through legitimate ways."
He's making you(us) jump through hoops dude, and he's never going to change his mind. Hayashi doesn't give a shit about amateur MMA or safety records or any of that crap, he cares about being lazy and having a cushy job.
I can appreciate your frustration, but the "powers that be" are never going to do anything about MMA until it becomes a "problem" or a point of debate.
if it's in their face, then they have no choice but to address it..as it is now, MMA can be ignored by ontario.
That's how I feel, and I remember back when Muay thai was illegal, and Hayashi was sitting in the audience of a Siam fight saying "ooh that's illegal". Remember who brought muay thai to ontario, it had nothing to do with that lazy POS.
Can someone refresh my memory as to what the exact distinction is between "amateur" & "professional" MMA other than; "one you do for free & the other you get paid"?
Is Hayashi suggesting that the other provinces are lawbreakers by allowing MMA?
The UFC in Montreal will show them what $$$ can be made...
^do you honestly think Hayashi doesn't realize MMA would be very profitable? Commissions usually make between 2 - 5% of the live gate. Problem is that's not going into his pocket. The OAC currently has nowhere near the amount of resources to run MMA. They couldn't even do back to back boxing shows last year. With the influx of $ from MMA I'm sure they could hire additional staff and pay existing staff more. Hayashi is not ignorant. He knows the deal and he's made up his mind.
hmeboy - MMA couldn't be any more front and centre than it is right now. Hayashi has come up with a reason not to allow MMA (laws, amateur, medical study blah, blah) and he's sticking to it. At the end of the day we have to remember this isn't the cure for cancer that he's suppressing. It's MMA and no matter how much we might love this sport, it's never going to be high on the political agenda. In fact, the more popular MMA gets one may argue the more incentive he has to prevent it because it bring unwanted attention, work, risk etc....
1armedScissor - the amateur mma we're talking with the gov't about has protective gear, restricted techniques etc... We've basically taken everything that happens in CAMTAO, CASK, CJA, and Judo Ontario and rolled it up into OMMAA's rules.