Do you push down or pull back on hikite when performing ouchigari?
I was taught to push down. Dave williams also teaches the push down method.
Yamashita pulls back when he performs ouchigari hikite.
What is the difference? Which one is better?
Link to video clip:
http://www.suginoharyu.com/html/video/yasuhiro/Yasuhiro%20Yamashita%20Olympic%20.mpg
Yamashita's hikite for ouchigari is similar to uchimata.
I've been taught to either pull down,or pull back and pull down.
Our current teacher's teacher is Mr. Yamashita, so we have been pulling down and back.
It's interesting how it works.
For example, all the hand actions can be linked together depending on the direction your are throwing and the throw you do.
You anchor the hikite at your waist/hip or a little higher depending on relative height.
For example, if you enter with ouchi, and get a reaction to the front, you can switch to a normal hikite pull for a forward throw. Maybe the guy hops onto his right foot, then you can switch to an ouchi that throws over his right leg instead of the left, using the tsurite to drive under the chin or otherwise control his head. If you need to switch to the front, you can raise the hikite for a more normal pull.
It's really a whole integrated system of coordinating the entire body and it's movement to be able to throw uke no matter how he reacts.
Ben R.
Ben - Which one is better for uchikomi/nagekomi? Competitions? An off topic question: What is your hikite and tsurite movement for kouchigari?
Thanks.
I was taught both I guess, but I pull back. The metaphor was like aiming a bow and arrow (maintaining tension on that arm to get yourself in and keep them from turning away). I think it's also advantageous to be able use the same grip and initial movements for ouchi as you do for other throws, so I think the pulling action works in there as well.
it can work either way.. the issue with pulling up like you would in uchimata is the risk for being countered is greatly increased.
yamashita's worked becuase his uchimata was so powerful people feared it and went onto their heels. the only people i know, or have seen, who can do ouchi with the hikite up get away with it becuase uke's on his heels thinking a forward throw is coming.
to enter a straight Ouchi like that could be very dangerous. when you push the hikite downyou almost eliminate any chance for a counter.. its just safer i think.
So pushing the hikite down is safer? Better for comps?
Off topic:
What is the movement for tsurite and hikite for kouchigari?
UF, id say safer for most people/cases.. whats better for comps is what works best for you.
if you already do it one way and have succeess then stick with it.
"Ben - Which one is better for uchikomi/nagekomi? Competitions? An off topic question: What is your hikite and tsurite movement for kouchigari?
Thanks"
You need to pick a method and practice it.
Doing uchikomi one way, nagekomi another, and competition another way isn't going to work.
You can do the same one in all three.
Kouchi Gari: Jeez, this is hard to describe but easy to do. You draw the hikite back and to your side, and our tsurite pushes under his chin/against his chest (for same height or if tori is shorter). Your hikite hand presses against the inside of the tsurite elbow, squeezing them together. You do a sort of vertical circular movement with your tsurite, and move your elbow to the center of your body.
That's one way to do it, at least.
Ben R.
Ouchi is a "down throw", so pulling up on the hikite isn't what you want. Like Josh pointed out, if the guy is reacting strongly to the rear, it's a different proposition.
Ben R.
Yamashita also shows the same thing in his book the "fighting spirit of judo".
"To get him off balance, pull your hikite to the side, with a feeling of pulling your hips in, and while reversing your wrist on your tsurite push your opponents shoulder." - The Fighting Spirit of Judo by Yamashita
Our coach here is a direct student of Y. Yamashita. His standard Ouchi does not pull to the side with hikite, he pulls down and to his hip with it.
The idea is to get the weight on uke's heels, then cut the leg out from under uke with the reaping leg.
Ben R.
Ben Reinhardt,
Do you think that Yamashita did Ouchi like he did in the video shown because he always used to use it in combination with Uchimata?
allcloser"
I'll have to look at the video to say for sure. It's downloading now via my superfast 56k modem.
There is another method called the "bow and arrow" method of handwork in Ouchi Gari, where you do pull back with the hikite. You transmit your weight to uke by lowering your weight, and do more of a push with the tsurite. My experience is that it is an older method of doing Ouchi. I took a look in "Best Judo", and Isao Inokuma (RIP) demonstrates what looks like the "bow and arrow" method.
Ben R.
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I went to Yamashita's seminar a while ago he showed different types of Ouchi garis. One was left againist right(kenka yotsu) and one was same side grip(ai yotsu). The kenka youtsu was sleeve hand pulled to tori's hip and collar grip pushed towards uke face. simalar to bow and arrow type. The another was againist a stiff arm.
Judo