Why does everyone keep saying if Brock takes you down its over? What fight has he ever done that? Randy got back up, Heath got back up (went back down over and over of course), Cain was on his back for less then 2 seconds. The only reason people are saying this is because of the Frank Mir fight. I think Brock is probably the most dominate wrestler at HW, and if he gets you down its gonna be hell, perhaps more hell then any other HW, but this myth that he only needs on TD is standard MMA fan crap. It's just like saying JDS will "just" KO him.
Also, OP, not bad, you got 2 threads so far, a anti-fedor thread and a Brock hype thread.
JDS punches HARD. Having said that Brock will be able to take JDS down with his power double, which expends tons of energy. The fight outcome will be determined by whether or not brock can hold him down/finish. if (i personally believe he will) JDS manages to get back to his feet, Brock will get punched in the face and then curl up into a ball.
stlnl2 - I dont have a dog in the fight, just saying, you seem to be having a busy weekend.
Oh because I thought in your last post you were trying to tell everybody that Cain pogo sticking back up after Lesnar took him down was pretty much standard issue stuff. You're motives seem transparent to me and excuses convenient, but I'll take your word for it, and thanks for taking interest in my weekend schedule stranger.
Caught_clean - Why does everyone keep saying if Brock takes you down its over? What fight has he ever done that? Randy got back up, Heath got back up (went back down over and over of course), Cain was on his back for less then 2 seconds. The only reason people are saying this is because of the Frank Mir fight. I think Brock is probably the most dominate wrestler at HW, and if he gets you down its gonna be hell, perhaps more hell then any other HW, but this myth that he only needs on TD is standard MMA fan crap. It's just like saying JDS will "just" KO him.I don't think people necessarily mean the fight is over after one TS... though Brock's top control is improving every fight.
Also, OP, not bad, you got 2 threads so far, a anti-fedor thread and a Brock hype thread.
But lets face it, after taking a beating under Brock for a while JDS is not going to have the same zip on his punches when he gets back up, as he will likely fade like he did in the Nelson fight, thus depleting his greatest asset before he inevitably gets taken down again.
I'm a big JDS fan and have always thought Brock was more of a size and strength guy more than an a teal fighter but OP is correct. Brock tko by GNP with baby elbows.
masterlibrary -stlnl2 - I dont have a dog in the fight, just saying, you seem to be having a busy weekend.
Oh because I thought in your last post you were trying to tell everybody that Cain pogo sticking back up after Lesnar took him down was pretty much standard issue stuff. You're motives seem transparent to me and excuses convenient, but I'll take your word for it, and thanks for taking interest in my weekend schedule stranger.
That was the second takedown, and was athleticism/wrestling ability. The first one, was just what I said it was, butterfly guard 101, you do fit in some training time along with this frenetic post count, right? Or are you just seeing what you want to see? Perhaps you think it was a sweep like some others seem to?
OveREEMed A New Butthole -masterlibrary -OveREEMed A New Butthole - Brock's take downs aren't anything special.
JDS has great distancing, take down defense, lots of speed and he is very strong, maybe even as strong as Brock is now in functional strength.
http://i.imgur.com/0OAi3.jpg
Yeah a div 1 NCAA wrestling champion who made it as far as he did because of his power double and was able to TD every non wrestler he faced at will in the UFC, and even be able to take down the likes of Carwin, Cain and Couture, three elite wrestlers, during the course of their fights is 'nothing special'.
Tell me more.
I'm sure JDS, the striker, who has never faced a wrestler before in his career and who was power doubled by BJJ fighter and controlled on the ground and beaten a few years back is going to have Brock's TD's on lock down.
Bravo.
Just get back to me to apologize after JDS stuffs Brocks takedowns and KOs him. Pre-illness Brock, I'd say he'd have a great chance, he was a fucking monster but not now.
And are you serious about mentioning him taking down Carwin? Shane was so tired, he'd fall over if you pushed him.
Oh so when you run out of argument and analysis, you rely on pretending that you visited the future instead?
Thanks for coming out Ms. Cleo.
Also pre-illness Brock is load of crap. Pre-illness Brock wasn't fighting Cain Velasquez and Shane Carwin, and Lesnar TD'ed Carwin, Cain and Couture regardless of the excuses you're trying to make.
stlnl2 -Not really sure why you're trying to involve me in that argument, I was simply pointing out that due to the stance you seemed to be taking in this thread your excuses and backpedaling seemed convenient.masterlibrary -stlnl2 - I dont have a dog in the fight, just saying, you seem to be having a busy weekend.
Oh because I thought in your last post you were trying to tell everybody that Cain pogo sticking back up after Lesnar took him down was pretty much standard issue stuff. You're motives seem transparent to me and excuses convenient, but I'll take your word for it, and thanks for taking interest in my weekend schedule stranger.
That was the second takedown, and was athleticism/wrestling ability. The first one, was just what I said it was, butterfly guard 101, you do fit in some training time along with this frenetic post count, right? Or are you just seeing what you want to see? Perhaps you think it was a sweep like some others seem to?
Not an excuse at all, if it helps you, you can quote what I said about the butterfly hook/handcontrol and see very, very clearly I was talking to the guy who referred to it as a sweep. No argument, me admiring your tenacious rapid fire posting the past few days, and whether a technique was a sweep or not are completely unrelated.
stlnl2 - Not an excuse at all, if it helps you, you can quote what I said about the butterfly hook/handcontrol and see very, very clearly I was talking to the guy who referred to it as a sweep. No argument, me admiring your tenacious rapid fire posting the past few days, and whether a technique was a sweep or not are completely unrelated.
I thought I already said I'd take your word for it and I even thanked you for taking interest in my weekend schedule. No need to keep explaining yourself.
masterlibrary -stlnl2 - Not an excuse at all, if it helps you, you can quote what I said about the butterfly hook/handcontrol and see very, very clearly I was talking to the guy who referred to it as a sweep. No argument, me admiring your tenacious rapid fire posting the past few days, and whether a technique was a sweep or not are completely unrelated.
I thought I already said I'd take your word for it and I even thanked you for taking interest in my weekend schedule. No need to keep explaining yourself.
Nah you posted about transparent motives, but I can see, a good back and forth is what you need to keep that count growing, I am bored and dont mind.
stlnl2 -I'm not that bored that I need to keep going over the same rehashed and trivial details of our conversation from two minutes ago that I already thought were dead and buried. Get over it and come at me with something new and inspiring if you want a back and forth :)masterlibrary -stlnl2 - Not an excuse at all, if it helps you, you can quote what I said about the butterfly hook/handcontrol and see very, very clearly I was talking to the guy who referred to it as a sweep. No argument, me admiring your tenacious rapid fire posting the past few days, and whether a technique was a sweep or not are completely unrelated.
I thought I already said I'd take your word for it and I even thanked you for taking interest in my weekend schedule. No need to keep explaining yourself.
Nah you posted about transparent motives, but I can see, a good back and forth is what you need to keep that count growing, I am bored and dont mind.
masterlibrary -stlnl2 -I'm not that bored that I need to keep going over the same rehashed and trivial details of our conversation from two minutes ago that I already thought were dead and buried. Get over it and come at me with something new and inspiring if you want a back and forth :)masterlibrary -stlnl2 - Not an excuse at all, if it helps you, you can quote what I said about the butterfly hook/handcontrol and see very, very clearly I was talking to the guy who referred to it as a sweep. No argument, me admiring your tenacious rapid fire posting the past few days, and whether a technique was a sweep or not are completely unrelated.
I thought I already said I'd take your word for it and I even thanked you for taking interest in my weekend schedule. No need to keep explaining yourself.
Nah you posted about transparent motives, but I can see, a good back and forth is what you need to keep that count growing, I am bored and dont mind.
Regarding your first post, I agree that JDS shouldnt be so heavily favored. However you are leaving something out of your point of view. JDS doesnt have to stop Brock's takedowns, he just has to avoid big damage. The fact is we really dont know how good JDS is recovering to his feet or avoiding a beating on the ground. It is the X factor going into the fight, not if he can stop Brock's takedowns.
Brock taking him down is a given, what Brock does with it (and this will be in large part determined by JDS's abilility to get to a recovery position safely and quickly) is what we dont know. Something we do know, beyond question, is Brock doesnt handle pugilistic pressure well at all, that is a certainty, and will not change from the last fight to the next. So on paper the fight is very winnable for BRock. But I feel JDS's camp will have a plan to work around getting back to his feet fast, and popping Brock, a couple shots and brock is done.
Also, passive aggressive is a female trait, unless you are female, might be better to take a more assertive stance.
brock wins, bad style match up
stlnl2 -masterlibrary -stlnl2 -I'm not that bored that I need to keep going over the same rehashed and trivial details of our conversation from two minutes ago that I already thought were dead and buried. Get over it and come at me with something new and inspiring if you want a back and forth :)masterlibrary -stlnl2 - Not an excuse at all, if it helps you, you can quote what I said about the butterfly hook/handcontrol and see very, very clearly I was talking to the guy who referred to it as a sweep. No argument, me admiring your tenacious rapid fire posting the past few days, and whether a technique was a sweep or not are completely unrelated.
I thought I already said I'd take your word for it and I even thanked you for taking interest in my weekend schedule. No need to keep explaining yourself.
Nah you posted about transparent motives, but I can see, a good back and forth is what you need to keep that count growing, I am bored and dont mind.
Regarding your first post, I agree that JDS shouldnt be so heavily favored. However you are leaving something out of your point of view. JDS doesnt have to stop Brock's takedowns, he just has to avoid big damage. The fact is we really dont know how good JDS is recovering to his feet or avoiding a beating on the ground. It is the X factor going into the fight, not if he can stop Brock's takedowns.
Brock taking him down is a given, what Brock does with it (and this will be in large part determined by JDS's abilility to get to a recovery position safely and quickly) is what we dont know. Something we do know, beyond question, is Brock doesnt handle pugilistic pressure well at all, that is a certainty, and will not change from the last fight to the next. So on paper the fight is very winnable for BRock. But I feel JDS's camp will have a plan to work around getting back to his feet fast, and popping Brock, a couple shots and brock is done.
Also, passive aggressive is a female trait, unless you are female, might be better to take a more assertive stance.
Obviously there are going to be unknown variables in every fight that can change the outcome, but in this case the X-factor going into this fight that you describe (which I agree with) is something that JDS has not proven... in any, way shape or form. Essentially putting the burden of proof on him in this fight. Which is exactly why I like Brock's chances more. We already know what we get from Brock, and if JDS can't do what he hasn't proven he can do (ie; get up after somebody like Brock takes him down), then he's in big trouble. That's not to say that it's not within the realm of possibility, but yeah... I'm picking Brock.
when you get Brock's nutsack out of your mouth then we can talk. I'll be back after he fight to ttt this thread after JDS knocks his ass out.
Thing with brock is he is very loose with his top control, and that works fine for a Mir (probably about the most overrated HW grappler out ther) but we dont know what JDS will do. The burden of proof may be on JDS for what he can or cannot do regarding take down defense/recovery, but Brock isnt rosy himself.
First we know how he reacts to fists hitting him, second, taking two life altering ass beatings in a row (well one life altering, the first scaring the shit out of you) takes a mental toll, no matter who you are. We have no idea how he is going to react to getting destroyed. The UFC has tossed him a bone with regard to this match up (as on paper its in his favor), but alot of fighters after a devastating loss, are simply not the same person they were before that loss, so Brock as a bit of proving to do himself.
Personally I think anyone betting on the fight with what we know about both guys is more about emotion than good sense (as its a toss up). The oddsmakers though are making a toss up more attractive with the JDS love, but often odds reflect popular opinion as much as facts.
damane08 - when I have an argument then we can talk. I'll pretend I'm Ms. Cleo and that I can predict the the(?) future be back after he (the) fight to ttt this thread after JDS knocks his ass out.
fixed
stlnl2 - Thing with brock is he is very loose with his top control, and that works fine for a Mir (probably about the most overrated HW grappler out ther) but we dont know what JDS will do. The burden of proof may be on JDS for what he can or cannot do regarding take down defense/recovery, but Brock isnt rosy himself.Well I completely disagree with your assessment of Mir so our views are going to branch out in differing directions from that point of your argument. Mir is more accomplished on the ground than JDS can dream of at this point in his career and I have serious doubts that JDS will pose as much a threat on the ground as he did. Not to mention Brock has likely only learned a lot more on the ground since that fight with all the work he's done with Comprido.
First we know how he reacts to fists hitting him, second, taking two life altering ass beatings in a row (well one life altering, the first scaring the shit out of you) takes a mental toll, no matter who you are. We have no idea how he is going to react to getting destroyed. The UFC has tossed him a bone with regard to this match up (as on paper its in his favor), but alot of fighters after a devastating loss, are simply not the same person they were before that loss, so Brock as a bit of proving to do himself.
Personally I think anyone betting on the fight with what we know about both guys is more about emotion than good sense (as its a toss up). The oddsmakers though are making a toss up more attractive with the JDS love, but often odds reflect popular opinion as much as facts.
I do agree that Brock's devastating loss to Cain can be a factor though.
Go back, watch Mir's fights and his grappling matches. He is a jerky, explosive styled grappler who explodes into moves. This gets alot of quick submissions, and agasint inferior athletes wins you sub grappling competitions.
However, on the bottom against Brock, he never moves his hips, lays flat on his back, etc. Basically things a good grappler would never do, esp not against a guy with ham fists.
Mir was zero threat in the second fight against Brock, and never made a real attempt to do a damn thing, the first fight he did his explode and turn routine, and Brock ran with him and got caught. Watch Mir's fights, and you might have a better idea as to what I mean when I say his grappling is very overrated.