Prime Couture in today's UFC?

SinCityHustler -
truffleButter - 
Snakey89 -

Randy vs cormier would have been interesting 

this. I think DC has the striking edge and I'm not sure Randy could overcome the size advantage in the rest of the division given how much better all HW's are these days. 

The heavyweights are a lot better these days? It’s mostly the same heavies, only old and near retirement plus Ngannou who has 1 single dimension plus Stipe.

I’m thinking here the heavies of today get smoked by Randy era heavies. I’m not seeing much better at all, let alone “how much better…”

Randy never fought anyone like Stipe and Cain. He was finished by Brock. He might have been competitive against Ubereem and Werdum but I’d give both those guys a really good shot against either Sylvia or Gonzaga. His biggest HW wins IMO were back in 2000-2002.

Randy would look quite different in the USADA era and would be too small for HW imo…

He can beat everyone except jones and Cormier. People don't realize how good Cormier is everywhere. He probably also has the best hands in the LHW division, probably also the best cardio. If it wasn't for Jon jones, Cormier would be considered the greatest of all time. He's never even lost a round to someone not named Jon jones

His tactical approach to fighting each opponent can still teach a lot to the very best in today’s MMA.

I feel that naturally he was a LHW, and today’s monsters might he a little too much even for his endurance, heart and fight IQ.

Don’t get me wrong, I never counted him out of any fight.

I'm one hell of a Couture fanboy, but the idea that he would be a tough matchup for Stipe or Cain is silly. Like, unbelievably silly. 

Two things people aren’t considering enough, IMO:

(1) The HW division is genuinely terrible. Stipe and Cain are both very good. Werdum seems to have lost a step but is good, as well. Tim Sylvia beats everyone else, as does nearly every all-time great HW.

(2) Cormier has great striking. That’s why he’d be a problem for Randy.

truffleButter - 
SinCityHustler -
truffleButter - 
Snakey89 -

Randy vs cormier would have been interesting 

this. I think DC has the striking edge and I'm not sure Randy could overcome the size advantage in the rest of the division given how much better all HW's are these days. 

The heavyweights are a lot better these days? It’s mostly the same heavies, only old and near retirement plus Ngannou who has 1 single dimension plus Stipe.

I’m thinking here the heavies of today get smoked by Randy era heavies. I’m not seeing much better at all, let alone “how much better…”

Randy never fought anyone like Stipe and Cain. He was finished by Brock. He might have been competitive against Ubereem and Werdum but I’d give both those guys a really good shot against either Sylvia or Gonzaga. His biggest HW wins IMO were back in 2000-2002.

Cain doesn’t fight. If you include him in with UFC heavies, no argument from me, he is the best. But he suffered a back injury and he hasn’t fought and may not fight. I did not consider Cain (my favorite fighter) for the heavies of today.

Ubereem and Werdum are heavies of Randy’s era who are not as good today as they were back then.

Brock is not a heavy of today either. His last win in UFC was 8 or 9 years ago.

So for “heavies of today” we have Stipe. Yes he’s awesome.

Whambo - Randy would look quite different in the USADA era and would be too small for HW imo....

He would, but the hypothetical is asking for Prime Randy. Prime Randy is exactly who we saw him to be, not small deflated dude who is being tested under USADA.

Wouldn't Stipe vs Randy look a lot like Chuck vs Randy?

michael76706 -

Wouldn't Stipe vs Randy look a lot like Chuck vs Randy?

Sure. Expect that Stipe is alot bigger, is a better wrestler, and hits much harder than Chuck. But yea....Other than that. It's alot alike.

“high alkaline diet” Randy was the best Randy

United Yorkie Rescue -
wiggum - Two things people aren't considering enough, IMO:

(1) The HW division is genuinely terrible. Stipe and Cain are both very good. Werdum seems to have lost a step but is good, as well. Tim Sylvia beats everyone else, as does nearly every all-time great HW.

(2) Cormier has great striking. That’s why he’d be a problem for Randy.

If Tim Sylvia is an all-time great HW, the then HW division has always been genuinely terrible.

He's got to be an all-time great UFC HW. Great MMA HW? No way, imo. The UFC HW division has always been weak. In Randy's prime, Pride had at least 3-5 HW's who would've been UFC champ. Fedor, Nog, Cro Cop, and Barnett all could've defended the belt 3 times.

Heavyweight is one division that hasn't evolved much. I think prime Couture would hold his own against pretty much any HW on the current roster. He wouldn't necessarily win them all, but I don't think anyone would completely outclass him.

United Yorkie Rescue -
MMAQuadfather - 
United Yorkie Rescue -
wiggum - Two things people aren't considering enough, IMO:

(1) The HW division is genuinely terrible. Stipe and Cain are both very good. Werdum seems to have lost a step but is good, as well. Tim Sylvia beats everyone else, as does nearly every all-time great HW.

(2) Cormier has great striking. That’s why he’d be a problem for Randy.

If Tim Sylvia is an all-time great HW, the then HW division has always been genuinely terrible.

He's got to be an all-time great UFC HW. Great MMA HW? No way, imo. The UFC HW division has always been weak. In Randy's prime, Pride had at least 3-5 HW's who would've been UFC champ. Fedor, Nog, Cro Cop, and Barnett all could've defended the belt 3 times.

Heavyweight is one division that hasn't evolved much. I think prime Couture would hold his own against pretty much any HW on the current roster. He wouldn't necessarily win them all, but I don't think anyone would completely outclass him.

Barnett couldn't have passed a drug test for 3 title fights in a row, even before USADA... 

I don't think CroCop would have done as well in UFC as he did in Pride. He came into UFC still in his prime, just couldn't adapt to the cage and elbows.

Cro cop would've destroyed AA and Sylvia, no question. He would've had problems with Mir and Couture, but that's it.

My point being that the UFC HW division has always been weak as hell, and I don't see much evolution in the last 17 years.  

A prime Randy lost to Barnett and Ricco and had to move down to 205 because he was just too small to fight at heavyweight. He doesn’t do well today against modern heavyweights. Even though they haven’t progressed as much as other weight classes, they are still a lot better than they were.

Randy doesn’t break the top 10 IMO.

JOB - A prime Randy lost to Barnett and Ricco and had to move down to 205 because he was just too small to fight at heavyweight. He doesn't do well today against modern heavyweights. Even though they haven't progressed as much as other weight classes, they are still a lot better than they were.

Randy doesn’t break the top 10 IMO.

Not fair to stack him up against the heavyweights. He really was a LHW

SinCityHustler - 
Whambo - Randy would look quite different in the USADA era and would be too small for HW imo....

He would, but the hypothetical is asking for Prime Randy. Prime Randy is exactly who we saw him to be, not small deflated dude who is being tested under USADA.

Right. We have to go with the guy who fought.

JOB - A prime Randy lost to Barnett and Ricco and had to move down to 205 because he was just too small to fight at heavyweight. He doesn't do well today against modern heavyweights. Even though they haven't progressed as much as other weight classes, they are still a lot better than they were.

Randy doesn’t break the top 10 IMO.

Barnett and Rico beat most current heavyweights, too.

wiggum - 
JOB - A prime Randy lost to Barnett and Ricco and had to move down to 205 because he was just too small to fight at heavyweight. He doesn't do well today against modern heavyweights. Even though they haven't progressed as much as other weight classes, they are still a lot better than they were.

Randy doesn’t break the top 10 IMO.

Barnett and Rico beat most current heavyweights, too.

Also, Randy returned to HW and beat big Timmy; Gonzaga; and then was doing well against Brock until the KO. He’s one of those guys who didn’t have a clear ‘prime.’

It’s hard to say that he was too small to fight at HW when he won the title again and then defended it.

JOB: Of this bunch, you don’t think Randy beats any of them? This is the UFC’s top 10.

Champ: Stipe

1 Francis Ngannou

2 Alistair Overeem

3 Alexander Volkov

4 Curtis Blaydes

5 Fabricio Werdum

6 Derrick Lewis

6 Mark Hunt

8 Marcin Tybura

9 Andrei Arlovski

10 Aleksei Oleinik

With or without trt? Assume it would be without. His skills would still keep him up the top. 

wiggum - 
wiggum - 
JOB - A prime Randy lost to Barnett and Ricco and had to move down to 205 because he was just too small to fight at heavyweight. He doesn't do well today against modern heavyweights. Even though they haven't progressed as much as other weight classes, they are still a lot better than they were.

Randy doesn’t break the top 10 IMO.

Barnett and Rico beat most current heavyweights, too.

Also, Randy returned to HW and beat big Timmy; Gonzaga; and then was doing well against Brock until the KO. He’s one of those guys who didn’t have a clear ‘prime.’

It’s hard to say that he was too small to fight at HW when he won the title again and then defended it.

JOB: Of this bunch, you don’t think Randy beats any of them? This is the UFC’s top 10.

Champ: Stipe

1 Francis Ngannou

2 Alistair Overeem

3 Alexander Volkov

4 Curtis Blaydes

5 Fabricio Werdum

6 Derrick Lewis

6 Mark Hunt

8 Marcin Tybura

9 Andrei Arlovski

10 Aleksei Oleinik

Let’s be honest - Tim wasn’t a great heavyweight. He fought in an era of poor competition. But it was a good win for Randy. Gonzaga was a good win too.

Randy maybe beats 2 or 3 of them. But there are heavyweights outside of UFC would beat some of them too.

I guess it would have been more fair to say he doesn’t break the top 6 or 7.

Randy had a very up and down career.