If a competitor moves from turtle to his opponents side-mount, is this a 3-point move or nothing?
Similarly, if a competitor shoots for a double-leg and ends up in side, that is only a 2 point takedown, no points for a guard pass, right.
If the same competitor goes for a Peruvian necktie and his opponent escapes and ends up in his side, that is a 2-point sweep for opponent, right?
When not in guard, what is the rule of thumb for giving points for getting to side-mount or sweeps?
Any BJJ refs out there?
ttt
takedown= 2 points
sweep using legs= 2 points
guard pass= 3 points
back, mount, knee on belly= 4 points
aside from advantage points, there are no other ways to earn points. I think ibjjf website has a breakdown of the rules
asscobra - takedown= 2 points
sweep using legs= 2 points
guard pass= 3 points
back, mount, knee on belly= 4 points
aside from advantage points, there are no other ways to earn points. I think ibjjf website has a breakdown of the rules
HOW TO LOCK THE SCOREBOARD
The score bord have this points
4 points – mount, back grab
3 points – passing the guard
2 points – take downs, sweeps and knee on the belly
CUT FROM IBJJF website
I'm well aware of the point system. Its not that easy.
Is turtle to side-mount considered a guard pass? Does it depend if he originally started in his opponents guard? What if there are some back and forth scrambles where it doesn't appear he started in opponents guard?
This is more difficult than you might think. Would you want points for this move?
From what I have seen:
Turtle to side is a pass.
A takedown to side is 3 points.
If you take an opponent down into turtle (point scored) and you lose a necktie it is no points for him. They do not credit sweeps from the turtle guard unless you get to a more traditional guard first (stupid rule IMO). However some refs will probably still score it as a "takedown" for the guy getting necktied.
Since this seems to be a question-themed thread: I had someone tell me that if you passed someone's guard and into side control that you wouldn't get the points unless you flattened the dude out....he was wrong, right?
Basically he was saying that if someone let's their guard get passed and then turns into the guy who is now in topside side control (like you're supposed to do), that the top guy won't be awarded points.
I was visibly surprised, I guess, because the guy was like, "Trust me, bro, I'm a brown belt and have been doing this for years!"
The brown belt is correct. No points if he immediately defends by shrimping to his side or getting a knee in. You need to demonstrate control of opponent with essentially a 3-second pin. Shrimping to the side is an escape from side-control.
BJJ is difficult to score because half the time the points are clear, but the other half its really fuzzy. Every guy on top will absolutely think he passed. Every guy on bottom will absolutely think he escaped.
good thread
ttt
from NAGA.
PASSING THE GUARD: Is when the athlete that is above his adversary or in between his legs, moves to his opponent’s side, establishing a perpendicular or longitudinal position over his adversary’s trunk, dominating him and leaving him no space to move or to escape the position—if even is on his side or back. 3 points NOTE: if the athlete that is underneath avoids the move by getting to his knees or standing up, the initiative will not be awarded 3 points but will be awarded an advantage.
By this definition, turle to side = 3 points because he is above his opponent. Notice that NAGA states you can get points if opponent is on side, BUT you must dominate and leave him no space to move.
Note: NAGA uses IBJJF rules for Gi.
From IBJJF:
Observation 4: When a competitor throws his opponent and ends up in a bottom position the competitor throwing will receive 2 points and the opponent on top will receive an advantage. If the competitor executing the throw lands in his opponents guard and is swept, both will receive 2 points.
Not sure I have ever seen this enforced.
IIRC, I saw this exact scenario disputed at the 2008 Grapevine, Texas NAGA tourney with one of Roli Delgado's teammates possibly? Whoever it was, they were disputing the last points given because they had tucked to the side after being taken down and though he didn't achieve half-guard he did immediately get his foot in hooking the back of his opponent's left leg, pressumably looking for the sweep. If it was Delgado maybe he'll see this thread and elaborate.
This is an interesting thread, and a great question.
Committeeman - If a competitor moves from turtle to his opponents side-mount, is this a 3-point move or nothing?
Similarly, if a competitor shoots for a double-leg and ends up in side, that is only a 2 point takedown, no points for a guard pass, right.
If the same competitor goes for a Peruvian necktie and his opponent escapes and ends up in his side, that is a 2-point sweep for opponent, right?
When not in guard, what is the rule of thumb for giving points for getting to side-mount or sweeps?
Any BJJ refs out there?
BJJ Ref here. These rules are in accordance to IBJJF, some organizations score it differently.
The turtle to pass may or may not be given three points.
1) If a competitor is getting his guard passed, turtles, but WITHIN THREE SECONDS is flattened out to side control, it is considered to have been a continuous pass and is awarded three points.
2) If the competitor is turtled for a longer amount of time or ended up in the turtle from another fashion, points are not awarded, merely an advantage for getting to side control.
If a takedown is performed and ends up in guard, they get 2 points. If they end in side control, 2 points. If they end up in mount, 2 + 4 for mount once it's stabilized. You could theoretically get the pass points if you land in half, stay there for a few seconds, and then pass.
Concerning the Peruvian necktie, only going from top to bottom in some sort of guard constitutes sweep points. If a sub is attempted from top half guard or top some kind of guard (closed, butterfly, 50/50, etc) and the other guy ends up on top, it's a sweep for the other guy. If some guy tries from the side of turtle to peruvian necktie and ends up on bottom, no penalty or points awarded.
That last question is silly. There can't be a guard pass (or points) if there was no guard, nor can there be sweeps. Only reversals, which don't get points.
TheClips - Since this seems to be a question-themed thread: I had someone tell me that if you passed someone's guard and into side control that you wouldn't get the points unless you flattened the dude out....he was wrong, right?
Basically he was saying that if someone let's their guard get passed and then turns into the guy who is now in topside side control (like you're supposed to do), that the top guy won't be awarded points.
I was visibly surprised, I guess, because the guy was like, "Trust me, bro, I'm a brown belt and have been doing this for years!"
The brown belt is correct. Points are not awarded until the opponent is mostly flat. A pretty good rule of thumb is to ask "Could I let go of these grips to try a sub?" If your body isn't controlling him enough to do that, well, you probably don't have side control held right yet.