Just curious. What does it take to be a good referee? I know a bunch of people have passed the command course with BJM and have loads of experience.... but does that mean they are now good referee's? just saying i've seen some really bad calls from certain refs and they are continually being used. Why is that? and I was curious if its because they have the BJM course or someone owes sombody something.
Just because you have the Mcarthy course and some exp does not make you a good referee and I wish they would bring other referees and judges in so everybody gets a fair shake.
I applied to ref in edmonton and the commission asked me whats my experience? I said around 400 mma fights reffed and around the same judged and they were like do you have the command course? im like whats that? well are you certified by Big john macarthy? im like ive reffed mma for almost 10 years before this "course" came around, now i gotta pay $500 bones and some peice o paper that probably a 1000 people that have never reffed an mma fight have and all of a sudden are more qualified because of it! lol
I agree, I would sooner have kckyote ref an event for me than someone with little to no actual cage/ring experience. Commissions like to see their refs have these "courses" as they believe it covers their butts just in case shit happens. The Command course just happens to be the one right now that the commissions are giving all the weight to, likely because of the recognition factor of BJM. That being said, I don't think The Command course is a bad thing by any means but I certainly don't think that just because you have taken this or any other particular course that it make you a competent official. With many cities looking to implement municipal mma commissions or who have already implemented these commissions it looks good on them to the city officials that the people officiating MMA have "official training/certification". I think that having these types of courses under your belt along with the type of experience kckyote describes adds to an officials credibility. A good official will be judged on his/her consistent performance.
not to say i didnt take all kinds of other courses , ive taken courses from big john in vegas,doc nelson,the i pro courses, herb dean, larry landless, mazzagatti. your right crhis it looks better i guess to the commissions, but in the west their are only a couple competent refs that can handle the job...so many early stoppages now from refs that dont know what they are looking at!
ya that too!
"A good official will be judged on his/her consistent performance. "
- true, but unless you are friends with the promoter it's pretty hard to even ref a fight in the first place. Looking at smaller regional promotions in Western Canada--where one would reasonably be looking to demonstrate a consistent performance -- one is hard pressed to find a ref that is not friends with the promoter. This, of course, raises all sorts of questions, for obvious reasons, not the least of which is unqualified referees being in a position to affect the future of dedicated athletes.
winnidon - "A good official will be judged on his/her consistent performance. "
- true, but unless you are friends with the promoter it's pretty hard to even ref a fight in the first place. Looking at smaller regional promotions in Western Canada--where one would reasonably be looking to demonstrate a consistent performance -- one is hard pressed to find a ref that is not friends with the promoter. This, of course, raises all sorts of questions, for obvious reasons, not the least of which is unqualified referees being in a position to affect the future of dedicated athletes.
Ya it's a tough situation right now when it comes to officiating and promotors. Problem is there just aren't enough officials out there yet, so what ends up happening is a school onwer turns promotor and has his students officiate. That's what has happened her in Sask. anyway. It actually hasn't turned out too bad for us. The guys that have been dedicated to officiating have been very good and I can honestly say that we have not had ANY complaints of favoritism. The officials here are actually governed by the Sask. Martial Arts Association and not by an individual club/school so the promotor has no say over who will be officiating any event. These officials now officiate all the events (ammy) in Sask. and we're looking to get more guys trained from several different schools.
Friends with the promotors or not the officials have to be able to separate personal feelings from professionalism or everything goes to hell. Those that our officiating governing body feel can't be unbiased simply will not be used again.
I realize the optics aren't great with refs being friends with promotors but right now so early in MMA there really aren't a ton of other options. I think in time there will be more officials available and this issues will take care of itself, hopefuly lol.
Hey Kyle, did you pay out of your own pocket to attend all those courses or did any commissions assist you financially?
I don't have the experience you have but I have about 200 MMA bouts under my belt reffing and am currently over seeing all the reffing her in Sask. for the SMA. If you guys are ever looking for officials out there let me know.
jkennedy - Any specifics you can site?
Not really one particlar fight, but it seems the same ref is being used time after time, both at the River Cree resort and now in Edmonton. He's the tall one (with a mustache) that stands at the opening of the cage and acts like the crowd owes him something. He's just done a bunch of bad calls and the crowd seems to know every one of them, because they boo him constantly.
Was just wondering what it takes to be a good ref.
kckyote - not to say i didnt take all kinds of other courses , ive taken courses from big john in vegas,doc nelson,the i pro courses, herb dean, larry landless, mazzagatti. your right crhis it looks better i guess to the commissions, but in the west their are only a couple competent refs that can handle the job...so many early stoppages now from refs that dont know what they are looking at!
so you can't ref in Edmonton just because you don't have the BJM course? With your experience and as a huge fan and supporter, I would like to see you ref everywhere. You were in Calgary all the time weren't you? Does Calgary have any issues with you not having the Mccarthy course?
Calgary has been very good to me as far as reffing goes and ive never had a problem there, they recomended the bjm course but i said i didnt have the time to do another one for two days.
Edmonton has been very difficult to deal with even though when early events in edmonton around 2000 and 2001 were lacking in qualified refs and judging i brought them to my school and gave instrucyion on what they were looking at in a mma fight, Mike from rising sun martial arts in edmonton played a pivitol role in making that happen.
as far as jkennedy question about reffing its all politics and who you know... ive been trying to get involved in the ufc for years to no avail ,even though i see lesser qualified refs doing shows every weekend!
jkennedy -FanTastic -jkennedy - Any specifics you can site?
Not really one particlar fight, but it seems the same ref is being used time after time, both at the River Cree resort and now in Edmonton. He's the tall one (with a mustache) that stands at the opening of the cage and acts like the crowd owes him something. He's just done a bunch of bad calls and the crowd seems to know every one of them, because they boo him constantly.
Was just wondering what it takes to be a good ref.
That's a pretty good discription of him actually. I'd have to dig out the actual write up but I think I wrote something like:
"While the two fighters were busy getting about the business of a fight he was wandering around the ring like a guy outside a bar looking to bum a smoke. By the time he realized the fight had started one guy was unconcious up against the cage taken repeated blows from his enthusiastic opponent."
Yeah, we all know who you're talking about. Had Herb Dean not pooped the bed so bad during the Spratt/Ford fight he'd have held the record for worst ref ever in The Capital City.
Do you have a copy of that artice that you wrote? I would like to read it if possible.
jkennedy - I'd have to look for it, no promises but I'll try to find it.
Thanks alot. Would you post it here for all to read or would you like a email address?
jkennedy - Having seen both you and Chris ref on a number of occassions I'd say we need more guys like you in the ring.
Thanks dude! I would like to start doing events outside of Sask. but probably need more official training to add to my credibility although I've likey reffed more bouts than a lot out there, other than kyle and Bergeron. Who knows, maybe my old ass still has a couple fights left yet to? lol
Myron, I'm drawing a blank as to where I saved the article. I think it's posted on Bullshido but to be totally honest I lack the motivation to look for it. I have an article in an older issue of MMA Authority that I wrote after a BJM intro course in Lethbridge that's easy enough to find. Funny enough the above mentioned ref was there as were some of his compatriots and I was more than a little disturbed by their general lack of knowledge about the sport to say nothing about their ability to inforce the rules. How do you ref something you don't understand?!?
I will give the Bullshido site a shot. I wouldn't mind reading anything you have written to be honest. I just want others opinions because as a layman I might be completely off by what I have seen. I don't have much to compare it to,except for television and the fights I've attended, but it sure looks strange...... and if it looks strange to someone like me something must be off... if that makes sense.
I think that the Calgary commission would welcome opinions, especially from those that are in the know.... having been there, seen it and done it as you have. At least thats what I think.