Rickson loses, how many?

Underground BJJ Ground
21
BradGluckman -
Lazer MMA - 
purplehaze -

So you're saying there is no truth that he lost fans by not fighting sak?   

This amuses me that you think your teaching me about this subject..  but go on what else don't I know?   

Look you're a troll bitch. This is my final post to you. He did NOT "duck" Sak. His son died and he would not fight after that. The fight was in the making prior.

"To "joke" (as such) about a legend that is already smeared due to ignorance is a dick move. Fact is though I'd bet you were just posting out of your ass (what you really know). The rest I covered."

Yep pretty obvious he was trolling from the jump and now is triggered that you called him on his bullshit

Prob. a Dr. MMA's new account or a Sherdoger

ANYWAY OP where are you? Sources? Thread is of interest IMO....

EDIT: Anyway it's not one poster but but instead an total misconception of the truth (or trolling) by many MMA fans in general

22
Lazer MMA -
purplehaze -

So you're saying there is no truth that he lost fans by not fighting sak?   

This amuses me that you think your teaching me about this subject..  but go on what else don't I know?   

Look you're a troll bitch. This is my final post to you. He did NOT "duck" Sak. His son died and he would not fight after that. The fight was in the making prior.

"To "joke" (as such) about a legend that is already smeared due to ignorance is a dick move. Fact is though I'd bet you were just posting out of your ass (what you really know). The rest I covered."

this doesnt really do justice to the Sak issue.

It sure makes sense that he wouldnt fight after his son died.

But RIckson continued to talk trash about Sak and other fighters nonetheless.  And he wouldnt step up to back up his words.  

23
EazyG -
Lazer MMA -
purplehaze -

So you're saying there is no truth that he lost fans by not fighting sak?   

This amuses me that you think your teaching me about this subject..  but go on what else don't I know?   

Look you're a troll bitch. This is my final post to you. He did NOT "duck" Sak. His son died and he would not fight after that. The fight was in the making prior.

"To "joke" (as such) about a legend that is already smeared due to ignorance is a dick move. Fact is though I'd bet you were just posting out of your ass (what you really know). The rest I covered."

this doesnt really do justice to the Sak issue.

It sure makes sense that he wouldnt fight after his son died.

But RIckson continued to talk trash about Sak and other fighters nonetheless.  And he wouldnt step up to back up his words.  

I don't doubt it EZ G but I'd like sources if possible (OP TOO, where TF are U) TY. 

Frankly, if he did as such I think it was an error as what is the productive value therein? On the other hand if Sak (or Ruas or anybody) wanted any, his door NHB, was open for business. Everyone knew that.

To Rickson TBH MMA was NOT important, in his mind a REAL fight (NHB, no rules or time limits) is what really mattered (or a JJ fight as well). I do agree and respect that (i.e. a real fight proves much more) as well. For real money (which very few saw back then other than him), looking at it as a business (MMA) yea he'd have fought anybody.

Logically WTF did guys want from Sak anyway? Look at the fights with Royce FFS, if Royce could do as he did, where is the logic in even wanting that fight so bad (as a fan)? For Rickson BTW the family was on it's own if they just fought in MMA fight(s). It was not for him to redeem them he felt. Now if GJJ honor was at stake (on the other hand) in general even only via trash talking, like with Ruas, Rickson would pay a visit looking for blood. It is what it is. Hard not to REALLY like Sak I know, everyone feels that way. I get it.

In fact the only exception IMO would have been if Tadeu had defeated Renzo (it did not look good as you know....). I expect given the circumstances, he'd have been forced to returm to Brazil and Ruas would not have been allowed to back out again (ala like he did with Duarte 1st fight).  

24

I remember when Ron's brother Mark (ormaybe it was an imposter, that was before KKM made trolls cool) was on the forums, I believe it may have been Mousels. Or maybe even here? Man that was along time ago. But Ron did beat Rickson in their match, nobody can deny that. 

25

i think that was his uncle, there was a whole passle of tripps. Rickson was on a bad tripp for sure. Rigan then beat ron, so bjj was "avenged", i guess. About a source on rickson's freestyle record, if a team goes to the pan ams, and a member fails to win a gold, or medal at all, they have clearly lost matches. Which isn't a negative reflection on rickson at all.

26

To me Rickson ducked too many Top level fighters to deserve the “legendary” status that he has had bestowed! I mean come on, who did he fight in Pride?

Remember when he announced his next fight was his retirement fight and it was going to be BIG? This forum, OnTheMat, Sherdog, and all the forums worth posting on, were buzzing with rumours. You could have had Ken or Frank Shamrock, Mark Kerr, Mark Coleman, Don Frye, any of the Lions Den pride. Team RAW, Pat Miletich had a stacked stable of fighters fighting out of his gym. Marco Ruas, Pedro Rizzo, any of the Chute Boxe team that were all doing great in the IVC! Igor Vovchanchin was successful at the time. What about Bas Rutten?

And with all of these competitors that he could have picked, as he did hand pick his opponents, who did he choose? He gave a rematch to Nobuhiko Takada! A tomato can who he already beat in less than 5 minutes! Talking some shit about his “Aura”, his “Warrior Spirit”. Complete Bollocks! He knew it was an easy win as he didnt want to risk going to 399-1!

Just my 2c.

27

^ Yeah, as a BJJ figure, Rickson is a legend.

As a fighter, he never really sought to fight the very best.

Renzo has always been the real “Rickson” of the family (in that generation) when it comes to fighting.

28
beev - To me Rickson ducked too many Top level fighters to deserve the "legendary" status that he has had bestowed! I mean come on, who did he fight in Pride?

Remember when he announced his next fight was his retirement fight and it was going to be BIG? This forum, OnTheMat, Sherdog, and all the forums worth posting on, were buzzing with rumours. You could have had Ken or Frank Shamrock, Mark Kerr, Mark Coleman, Don Frye, any of the Lions Den pride. Team RAW, Pat Miletich had a stacked stable of fighters fighting out of his gym. Marco Ruas, Pedro Rizzo, any of the Chute Boxe team that were all doing great in the IVC! Igor Vovchanchin was successful at the time. What about Bas Rutten?

And with all of these competitors that he could have picked, as he did hand pick his opponents, who did he choose? He gave a rematch to Nobuhiko Takada! A tomato can who he already beat in less than 5 minutes! Talking some shit about his "Aura", his "Warrior Spirit". Complete Bollocks! He knew it was an easy win as he didnt want to risk going to 399-1!

Just my 2c.

Rickson fought and made REAL money when very  few other fighters did. He fought Takada when the money was there. What you don't get is how much Takada was fuckin loved in Japan, thus the money was put in play.

After Colosseum came up REAL big ($) for a fight with Funaki. Source a BIG offer prior to Rockson's death that he passed up.

See he did not DUCK anyone, once more he showed up to fight Ruas for free in a REAL NHB fight in the face jaw flapping. Anyone that wanted any he offered a REAL fight too, no issue. If you wanted him to stop hitting you before he felt like stoping (MMA/Vale Tudo) he wanted to get paid.... Good for him

The way dumb ass MMA fans have posted on this topic is fuckin horrid/ignorant.

29
shen - ^ Yeah, as a BJJ figure, Rickson is a legend.

As a fighter, he never really sought to fight the very best.

Renzo has always been the real “Rickson” of the family (in that generation) when it comes to fighting.

Renzo called Rickson "perfect", and he and all in the sourced thread (including the best Bjj fighters ever) say you're wrong........

You've always been wrong

30

Rickson simply didn’t accomplish what some others have in MMA. Agreed? His “legend” was not really made as an MMA fighter.

If he had sought out and fought the very best in his prime, he very well may have lost. That’s always the risk. Instead, he chose to play it safe.

Rickson may be more skilled than Renzo in BJJ, but Renzo stepped up & put it on the line to fight in a way Rickson never quite did --and as such is deserving of more respect, IMO.

BJJ is NOT fighting. Just look at god-like BJJ legends JJ Machado & Marcelo Garcia’s own results in MMA. They are TRUE BJJ Masters, but fighting is different. BJJ mastery is not enough. BJJ players tend to WAY over estimate it’s value in MMA.

Rickson knew he would have lost quite a bit of his mystique if he was was ground & pounded for 3 rounds by some dude from Team Quest or wherever. And realistically, that’s the kind of stuff that very probably could or would have happened. Too bad we will never know because Rickson himself didn’t want to find out.

31
Lazer MMA -
shen - ^ Yeah, as a BJJ figure, Rickson is a legend.

As a fighter, he never really sought to fight the very best.

Renzo has always been the real “Rickson” of the family (in that generation) when it comes to fighting.

Renzo called Rickson "perfect", and he and all in the sourced thread (including the best Bjj fighters ever) say you're wrong........

You've always been wrong

What's your take on Rickson vs bruce lee?

32
de braco -
Lazer MMA -
shen - ^ Yeah, as a BJJ figure, Rickson is a legend.

As a fighter, he never really sought to fight the very best.

Renzo has always been the real “Rickson” of the family (in that generation) when it comes to fighting.

Renzo called Rickson "perfect", and he and all in the sourced thread (including the best Bjj fighters ever) say you're wrong........

You've always been wrong

What's your take on Rickson vs bruce lee?

Rickson spoke highly of Bruce as did any number of fighters (including world champions who he trained).

Those thoughs mean something as do the many accolades given Rickson by the best BJJ fighters that ever lived. This VS moronic posters words........ What's your take? Whos words matter?

33

Paul Filho reveals: Rickson is in shape and ready to impress in the rings. "I always knew that he was exceptional, but the truth is, I had no idea how," says the amazed fighter from BTT, after a few training sessions with Rickson Gracie.

The secrets confided by Rickson should remained locked in a very well hidden vault. "Of course I'm not showing everybody the secrets that he told me alone. That would be betraying his confidence. It's up to the master to know what to teach and to whom," ponders Paul Filho, aged 26, 11 wins, eight of which have occurred in Japan.

”I have no doubt that Rickson Gracie is the best ground fighter of all time. I bet on him against any athlete of today.”

Paulo Filho, MMA Champion and member of the famous Brazilian Top Team.

 

“I bet on him against anyone.”

“He is a martial arts myth and has nothing left to prove… Rickson will always do well. He will follow his same old style, do the same thing as always and the opponents will be submitted the same way. Adversaries will tap out even if they know his game. He is one of rare fighters I’ve seen in action who do not give up ground positions. Many regarded as aces in JJ fail in submitting their adversaries because they can’t hold on to the ground positions. I doubt that’s going to happen to Rickson… I bet on him against anyone.”

Fabricio Werdum. Ranked 3rd Best Heavyweight MMA Fighter in the World by Sherdog. 2-Time BJJ World Champion. 2-Time ADCC World Champion. Holds Black Belts in BJJ, Judo & Muay Thai.

When I’m training with him I’m always tapping.”

“People try to compare Rickson with somebody but no one can compare Rickson in the jiu-jitsu because he’s maybe 20 years forward from everybody. I am the 2 time World Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Champion and when I’m training with him I’m always tapping. He has a lot of skills and I think in jiu-jitsu nobody can beat him. I studied with him also in Brazil and have been coming to Los Angeles, off and on, for nearly eight years to take lessons. Rickson is more than just one man—he feels like 5 when you’re fighting him. You have to sacrifice, sometimes, to study with the best, and Rickson is the best. There is only one Rickson Gracie and he is on a different level from everyone else.”

Fabio Gurgel. Co-founder of the Alliance Jiu Jitsu Team. 5th Degree Black Belt of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. 8x World Champion of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. ADCC World Champion. 4-Time Brazilian National Champion. 2-Time European Champion.

kikenyoy - 

LittleC - SOMEBODY PLEASE POST TIM CREUDERS STOREY

I found it in my subs list:

From: Timothy_Credeur

Posted: 4/28/06 11:10 PM

Edited: 28-Apr-06 Member Since: 01/01/2001

Posts: 92 Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up

I am no great anything. As a purple I heard all the bullshit about Rickson and I thought as many on my Team ( What the F$%* ). How good can a guy really be. Coming from the Carlson Gracie Team I had wrestled with the best and I knew what the damn deal was. I was smoking everyone in tournaments as a purple back then and I figuered of course I would get worked but I was pretty legit and it could not have been that bad if I rolled with Rickson. I mean what could he possibly do that I had not seen. I got a private, I waited about 2 months for it. I got so fucked up when we finally rolled I questioned everything and I mean everything that I had ever learned or thought about Jiu-Jitsu. I am a Black Belt today under World Champion Rodrigo Medeiros ( Carlson Gracie / BJJ Revolution Team ) I fight regularly in MMA and I have trained with any and everyone you could imagine. Rickson is FUCKING FOR REAL. THERE IS NO MYSTIC, LEGEND OR MYSTERY. HE IS JUST A FUCKING REAL LIVE JIU-JITSU WAR MACHINE MONSTER THAT BRINGS GAME YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND. UNLESS YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED IT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW AND MANY DON’T EVEN HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO KNOW HOW BAD HE IS WHEN THE SESSION IS GOING DOWN BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT EVEN GOOD ENOUGH TO RECOGNIZE THE DOMINANCE THAT IS TAKING PLACE. Check me out on OTM or Sherdog. I am legit and this motherfucker is off the fucking charts. What Paulo said doesn’t surprise me in the least. I don’t mean to rant and I jock ride no man ever. I rarely ever post on this website or any other. I am just dropping a peice of knowledge that I possess so the masses know that my experience was felt and my life was changed by a guy that felt inhuman to roll with. Tim Credeur

A few of maybe a hundred. http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/forums/UnderGround/When-Rickson-showed-up-to-fight-Ruas:2346778-1 and page 2

let me listen to some dumb ass forum posters instead of the BEST. This when a guy has an open challenge to a real fight VS the world to boot… LMFAO!

34

^ OK great, then it clearly would have been a mere formality for him to take out the best MMA fighters in the world at the time. I wonder why he didn’t…?

Obviously, he could he have won the Gold in Judo at the 1992 Summer Olympics too. That sport is so much closer to jiu Jitsu than MMA.

–Probably could have gotten the Gold in Freestyle Wrestling as well, if he had wanted to.

… Wouldn’t completely count him out of medal contention for the Pommel Horse, either.

35
shen - Rickson simply didn't accomplish what some others have in MMA. Agreed? His "legend" was not really made as an MMA fighter.

If he had sought out and fought the very best in his prime, he very well may have lost. That’s always the risk. Instead, he chose to play it safe.

Rickson may be more skilled than Renzo in BJJ, but Renzo stepped up & put it on the line to fight in a way Rickson never quite did --and as such is deserving of more respect, IMO.

BJJ is NOT fighting. Just look at god-like BJJ legends JJ Machado & Marcelo Garcia’s own results in MMA. They are TRUE BJJ Masters, but fighting is different. BJJ mastery is not enough. BJJ players tend to WAY over estimate it’s value in MMA.

Rickson knew he would have lost quite a bit of his mystique if he was was ground & pounded for 3 rounds by some dude from Team Quest or wherever. And realistically, that’s the kind of stuff that very probably could or would have happened. Too bad we will never know because Rickson himself didn’t want to find out.

"Rickson fought and made REAL money when very  few other fighters did. He fought Takada when the money was there. What you don't get is how much Takada was fuckin loved in Japan, thus the money was put in play.

After Colosseum came up REAL big ($) for a fight with Funaki. Source a BIG offer prior to Rockson's death that he passed up.

See he did not DUCK anyone, once more he showed up to fight Ruas for free in a REAL NHB fight in the face jaw flapping. Anyone that wanted any he offered a REAL fight too, no issue. If you wanted him to stop hitting you before he felt like stoping (MMA/Vale Tudo) he wanted to get paid.... Good for him

The way dumb ass MMA fans have posted on this topic is fuckin horrid/ignorant."

If the $$ was put down he'd have fought ANYONE. Again you can source SHIT on $$ that was offered, and this is your delusion only.... I'm a huge fan of many fighters.

Rickson was a street fighter who valued REAL fighting and JJ 1stly. MMA was a business, he wanted to get paid. Can u fuckin grasp that? 

What do I think? I agree with Gorden, the first fighter that beats Rickson is the one that does not go the ground with him. Who was it? I have no fuckin clue

36

In Rickson defense he was on his late 30’s in Pride. Well I past his prime. Some of those top fighters were to big a risk imo

37
graciesrule - In Rickson defense he was on his late 30’s in Pride. Well I past his prime. Some of those top fighters were to big a risk imo

Where the fuck are the sources for the 1st post please? Were you trolling only?

I agree to a degree, no question his speed was much less (esp. in PRIDe 4), but no one knows his JJ prime either except him, so who knows.

"If the $$ was put down he'd have fought ANYONE. Again you can source SHIT on $$ that was offered".

Why would you troll on the topic? Rolls?

38

"He lost to red belt And Carlson student Carlos Antonio Rosando. He also did not win gold when the Gracie's fielded a freestyle wrestling team so he has lost in wrestling" - SOURCES?

39

Well troll your stuid shit on an UG thread where I can't post. I'll wax your dumb asses here on BJJGround. 

He beat Rolls and became the family champ. Then he got much better. Get over it

40

My input. Context I trained with Rickson a couple times in the 1990s, and followed NHB/MMA from UFC 1.

Rickson was never claimed to be the best at MMA, but the best at BJJ. Simple as that. Being the best also doesn’t mean that you won’t ever lose. That’s ridiculous. But he could bring it every time. He was a monster and I have felt him.

BUT, he would not have won the next 1996 Vale Tudo, I don’t think. Rickson’s weakness was his stand-up. He wouldn’t be able to take all down as he simply was’t big enough nor explosive enough. He also was fairly linear when it came to defending punches and would have eaten many right down the middle. But it was a different era. Rickson fought many challenge matches against martial artists and tough street brawlers, including here in the U.S.

As an example of stand-up, Rickson almost lost his fight with Funaki. He shot in with his hands down/reaching and Funaki teed off after seeing the opening. If the punch had connect 2 inches lower, Rickson would have been out on his feet. Instead, Rickson fractured his orbital bone, and now admits he was blind in one eye for a minute and was worried he had permanently lost his vision.

The biggest flaw in his style was a lack of wrestling skill against skilled wrestlers and lack of training against professional boxers wise to the game. How in the heck would Rickson taken down Randy Couture or someone similar?

But, since I know a very respected BJJer who once personally told me that he thought everyone was full of shit about Rickson, so did a lesson with him and was simply awestruck and how he got shutdown and handled and repeatedly submitted on the ground, I don’t doubt any of the stories regarding his BJJ mastery.