Does this gif paint a more fair unbiased view of the incident to you?
Yes, and completely exonerates Kennedy. Thank you very much for posting it.
The original gif makes it appear that Kennedy is holding on to Romero's glove. As we can obviously see from the extended clip, Kennedy actually begins by holding Romero's wrist. Inadvertently his hand slips down in the heat of battle and you can see his pinky and ring fingers caught in Romero's glove. You can also plainly see that Kennedy is not gripping with his thumb and pointer finger...you know, the fingers necessary for actually gripping something. I think we can all agree if his intention was to actually make a grip on Romero's glove, he would not have chosen such weak fingers with which to make it (and not even enough fingers at all--you can't hold someone's glove with two fingers). What we have here then is a momentary case of accidentally having his fingers caught in Romero's glove and nothing more. You can even see him trying to free his hand.
For a look at blatant illegal uniform gripping, see Anderson Silva against Chael Sonnon. That man knew what he was doing.
I'm actually quite impressed with your case, bravo sir. Although I agree that Tim wasn't purposely planning to grab hold of the glove and cheat the evidence shown here in the gif on page 2 of this thread clearly shows that Tims fingers position provide an element of control of his opponent Mr. Yoels arm. You have gone on the record here at the world famous Underground MMA forum stating, and I quote:
" his hand slips down in the heat of battle and you can see his pinky and ring fingers caught in Romero's glove"
" he would not have chosen such weak fingers with which to make it "
" a momentary case of accidentally having his fingers caught in Romero's glove "
These statements provide by you, Soul Gravy, have without a doubt incriminated Mr. Kennedy to the act of commiting a foul under the rules of the octogon. All fighters are reminded of said rules before entering into to combat in the UFC. Whether these actions were intentional or not is of no concern as its the act alone and not the intent which is cause for a foul thus providing the victim the right to a 5 minute recovery break. Precedent has been set on numerous occasions regarding punishing foul as to intent. Strikes to the groin region has been committed by multiple fighters in multiple fights and have been the reason for stopping the action to give the victim time to rest before resuming the fight.
1. Intention should definitely be taken into account. An accidental foul does not and should not carry the same weight as an intentional foul.
2. There is both precedent of intent being used to determine the legitimacy of the foul and for the lack of response to intentional and unintentional fouls. Allow me to elaborate.
Fence grabbing is a foul. Grabbing the shorts of your opponent is a foul. Faking injuries (groin shots and eye pokes are most common--why hello there, Mr. Koscheck) is a foul. Strikes to the back of the head are fouls. And for each of these there are numerous examples of failures by the referee to intervene and/or offer any sort of recovery period to the injured party. When even blatant fouls often go unpunished, can you really make a case for punishing Kennedy's obviously unintentional incident?
Therefore I state Kennedy's foul was unintentional, momentary, and overall made little impact in the fight. During the entirety of the foul, Kennedy himself was attempting to rectify the situation without the intervention of the referee. I see no alternative but to declare him innocent of this charge.
Mr. Gravy.....I have reviewed your claims closely and by most accounts agree with them. I am now compelled to remind you of the case in question as I feel you have strayed off course. Let me present yet another quote from you taken from page 1 on this thread, and keep in mind this is your first post in response to reading Mr. Romeros story.
"Yoel is a piece of shit cheater. And no, Kennedy did not grab the glove. We've been over this already."
You clearly state without any doubt that Kennedy did not grab the glove and even mention that you've discussed this in the past indicating that your thoughts in the matter have been reviewed many times over. On top of this statement you choose to try and discredit Mr. Romero by refering to him as "a piece of shit cheater" in an effort to make your case more believable to the forum noobs and casual fans alike who don't know him as well as they should before passing judgement.
It seems now in your last post that you not only have completely changed your opinion on the matter but are now trying to plead for mercy towards Timothy for his careless actions inside the cage. I present another quote.
"can you really make a case for punishing Kennedy's obviously unintentional incident?"
This is clear evidence that you have now gone back on your initial accusation against Yoel. The fight is now months in the past. Neither fighters were penalized except by people like you, you and others like you who are so quick to point blame and judgement against those who put their very health and well being at risk to bring us entertainment. In closing I see no reason to have this debate go any further as the evidence speaks for itself. It is obvious that after all the controversy and media exposure the only fact that remains is that Tim Kennedy got KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT by Yoel Romero. I am happy to listen the trusting members of the UG state their opinions on the matter if they feel it is needed.
BirdWatcher
Allow me to rephrase:
Tim Kennedy did not intentionally grab Yoel Romero's glove, nor was the action in which he was involved effective in altering the course of the fight. Given his lack of grasping with both thumb and pointer finger, which I think we can all agree is necessary to utilize for "grabbing," I stand by my statement that he did not grab the glove, certainly not in the manner in which he is accused.
I would state again that there is precedent for intentional fouls going unpunished. To punish Kennedy's unintentional mishap is foolish and shortsighted. It was momentary, accidental, effected no change in fighting conditions, and was attempted to be rectified by the fighter himself from the moment it began.
Deaner - Hate420 and soul gravy clearly have agendas and no amount of logic or reason will change their already predetermined opinions on this subject.
Actually we are the only ones with common sense on this thread that can evaluate the situation without our blind hatred for Kennedy getting in the way of rationale.
I'm curious if Soul Gravy will respond to our back and forth. Although its obvious we were having fun with it (at least I was) I feel his arguement has been shown as weak, he clearly admitted to the grab then tried to take the mercy route.
everafter - 3 months for Romero to come up with this? c'mon... any fighter would object immediately if that was done to him. I know kennedy haters have to save their fathead's face for so flagrantly cheating but it's childlike. holding down a fighter's hand is allowed. maybe fathead fans have x-ray vision and can see fingers inside the glove in several seconds of fierce action and moving around. 30 extra seconds is indisputably against the rules. It was up to romero if it really occurred to say something and he didn't cause it didn't happen. and thanking Jesus at the end for his cheating was really repulsive. he's latching on to what the kennedy haters have been putting out there cause he wants a little press for his fight. Look forward to him being owned by jacare.
First of all, you seem like a well mannered adult.
Secondly, how can you not see that he's holding his glove? Sure we can't see with xray eyes that his fingers are inside the glove but it doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened.
I think in this case, your intense desire to maintain Kennedy's image is the only thing i can see that doesn't allow you to see what everyone else can see.
You can look at the extended video and see he's not holding the glove.
Yoel dominated Kennedy in that fight. It's not surprising Kennedy decided to resort to cheating to try to win. What Kennedy did was far worse than what Yoel did, because Yoel didn't actually cheat.
Does this gif paint a more fair unbiased view of the incident to you?
Yes, and completely exonerates Kennedy. Thank you very much for posting it.
The original gif makes it appear that Kennedy is holding on to Romero's glove. As we can obviously see from the extended clip, Kennedy actually begins by holding Romero's wrist. Inadvertently his hand slips down in the heat of battle and you can see his pinky and ring fingers caught in Romero's glove. You can also plainly see that Kennedy is not gripping with his thumb and pointer finger...you know, the fingers necessary for actually gripping something. I think we can all agree if his intention was to actually make a grip on Romero's glove, he would not have chosen such weak fingers with which to make it (and not even enough fingers at all--you can't hold someone's glove with two fingers). What we have here then is a momentary case of accidentally having his fingers caught in Romero's glove and nothing more. You can even see him trying to free his hand.
For a look at blatant illegal uniform gripping, see Anderson Silva against Chael Sonnon. That man knew what he was doing.
The FACT of the matter is that thise shots were still ILLEGAL even if it was inadvertant. Accidental nut shots give u 5 minutes. Accidental knee to the head gets u 5 min.
Either way the shots were illegal and youre a moron. 1st u say ted didnt grab his glives yet its been the replay is clear. Now u say ut was an accident.
Just admit that u were wrong and that kenedy did grab the glove albeit by accident.
Again the shots he landed were illegal regardless. Idiot
To grab you must utilize thumb and pointer finger at the very least. We can see from the footage that Kennedy was not utilizing these fingers. Therefore your contention that he "grabbed" is wrong from the start.
If you want to get specific, it would be a matter of pulling on your opponent's uniform, which is illegal, not illegal. Anderson Silva did this to good effect against Chael and was not punished. So even if Kennedy was grabbing the glove (which he wasn't) there is precedent for that action going unpunished (if you recall, Silva landed punches off the shorts grab).
Does this gif paint a more fair unbiased view of the incident to you?
Yes, and completely exonerates Kennedy. Thank you very much for posting it.
The original gif makes it appear that Kennedy is holding on to Romero's glove. As we can obviously see from the extended clip, Kennedy actually begins by holding Romero's wrist. Inadvertently his hand slips down in the heat of battle and you can see his pinky and ring fingers caught in Romero's glove. You can also plainly see that Kennedy is not gripping with his thumb and pointer finger...you know, the fingers necessary for actually gripping something. I think we can all agree if his intention was to actually make a grip on Romero's glove, he would not have chosen such weak fingers with which to make it (and not even enough fingers at all--you can't hold someone's glove with two fingers). What we have here then is a momentary case of accidentally having his fingers caught in Romero's glove and nothing more. You can even see him trying to free his hand.
For a look at blatant illegal uniform gripping, see Anderson Silva against Chael Sonnon. That man knew what he was doing.
The FACT of the matter is that thise shots were still ILLEGAL even if it was inadvertant. Accidental nut shots give u 5 minutes. Accidental knee to the head gets u 5 min.
Either way the shots were illegal and youre a moron. 1st u say ted didnt grab his glives yet its been the replay is clear. Now u say ut was an accident.
Just admit that u were wrong and that kenedy did grab the glove albeit by accident.
Again the shots he landed were illegal regardless. Idiot
To grab you must utilize thumb and pointer finger at the very least. We can see from the footage that Kennedy was not utilizing these fingers. Therefore your contention that he "grabbed" is wrong from the start.
If you want to get specific, it would be a matter of pulling on your opponent's uniform, which is illegal, not illegal. Anderson Silva did this to good effect against Chael and was not punished. So even if Kennedy was grabbing the glove (which he wasn't) there is precedent for that action going unpunished (if you recall, Silva landed punches off the shorts grab).
This is probably the most delusion I've seen on this site.
The glove grab claim is pretty ridiculous. His fingers look to have slipped into the top of the glove as Romero pulled his arm back, then came free a second or so later, and played no role in anything that happened. Romero staying on his stool however was very blatant and will stay with him the rest of his career.
Does this gif paint a more fair unbiased view of the incident to you?
Yes, and completely exonerates Kennedy. Thank you very much for posting it.
The original gif makes it appear that Kennedy is holding on to Romero's glove. As we can obviously see from the extended clip, Kennedy actually begins by holding Romero's wrist. Inadvertently his hand slips down in the heat of battle and you can see his pinky and ring fingers caught in Romero's glove. You can also plainly see that Kennedy is not gripping with his thumb and pointer finger...you know, the fingers necessary for actually gripping something. I think we can all agree if his intention was to actually make a grip on Romero's glove, he would not have chosen such weak fingers with which to make it (and not even enough fingers at all--you can't hold someone's glove with two fingers). What we have here then is a momentary case of accidentally having his fingers caught in Romero's glove and nothing more. You can even see him trying to free his hand.
For a look at blatant illegal uniform gripping, see Anderson Silva against Chael Sonnon. That man knew what he was doing.
The FACT of the matter is that thise shots were still ILLEGAL even if it was inadvertant. Accidental nut shots give u 5 minutes. Accidental knee to the head gets u 5 min.
Either way the shots were illegal and youre a moron. 1st u say ted didnt grab his glives yet its been the replay is clear. Now u say ut was an accident.
Just admit that u were wrong and that kenedy did grab the glove albeit by accident.
Again the shots he landed were illegal regardless. Idiot
To grab you must utilize thumb and pointer finger at the very least. We can see from the footage that Kennedy was not utilizing these fingers. Therefore your contention that he "grabbed" is wrong from the start.
If you want to get specific, it would be a matter of pulling on your opponent's uniform, which is illegal, not illegal. Anderson Silva did this to good effect against Chael and was not punished. So even if Kennedy was grabbing the glove (which he wasn't) there is precedent for that action going unpunished (if you recall, Silva landed punches off the shorts grab).
This is probably the most delusion I've seen on this site.
Quite delusional to say the least
His entire argument is rendered false. The gable grip is a widley known grip which does not use the thumb. Its quite pathetic that u think u can make up a definition for what a grab is.
International or not romero should've gotten 5 minutes. He took matters into his own hands since the illegal/fight changing blows were undetected.
There was precedent for Romero to take a few additional seconds to recover since the ref didnt do his due diligence.
Tim was getting hus ass handed to him before the illegal glove grab
HULC - The glove grab claim is pretty ridiculous. His fingers look to have slipped into the top of the glove as Romero pulled his arm back, then came free a second or so later, and played no role in anything that happened. Romero staying on his stool however was very blatant and will stay with him the rest of his career.
Huge shots that were a direct result of the glove grab were landed in that 1 second
U morons that expect Romero to just allow himself to lose due to it being an accident should also then expect tim to call time out when he felt his fingers go in the glove. Then at least you'd be consistent
Deaner - Hate420 and soul gravy clearly have agendas and no amount of logic or reason will change their already predetermined opinions on this subject.
Actually we are the only ones with common sense on this thread that can evaluate the situation without our blind hatred for Kennedy getting in the way of rationale.
Lol what an incredibly hypocritical post.
Are you 12 years old or something? Because every time I read your retarded posts that's what I assume. Look, it's obvious you have a hard on for me, so if you wanna suck my dick PM me buttercup.
Let me guess? You're gonna call this post "hypocritical" right? Because that seems to be all you got in every post. Lol
Facts remain, all you bitter bitter Kennedy haters can't look at the situation with normal reason. If you can't see Kennedy's finger accidentally getting stuck(it was actually Romeros fault Tims finger got stuck) and Romero blatantly refuse to get off the stool, and realize the difference in intent between the two....then having this conversation is a complete waste of time. You guys have your minds made up because of your personal feelings for one of the fighters.
Romero will go down in history as a cheater now, and every time his name is brought up people are gonna think.....hey look, the cheater stool guy is up next.
Props to him for doing what he had to to get the W. Now he'll always have the stigma of being a dirty fighter, right up there with the Mike Kyles and Gilbert Yvels of the world.
Deaner - Hate420 and soul gravy clearly have agendas and no amount of logic or reason will change their already predetermined opinions on this subject.
Actually we are the only ones with common sense on this thread that can evaluate the situation without our blind hatred for Kennedy getting in the way of rationale.
Lol what an incredibly hypocritical post.
Are you 12 years old or something? Because every time I read your retarded posts that's what I assume. Look, it's obvious you have a hard on for me, so if you wanna suck my dick PM me buttercup.
Let me guess? You're gonna call this post "hypocritical" right? Because that seems to be all you got in every post. Lol
Facts remain, all you bitter bitter Kennedy haters can't look at the situation with normal reason. If you can't see Kennedy's finger accidentally getting stuck(it was actually Romeros fault Tims finger got stuck) and Romero blatantly refuse to get off the stool, and realize the difference in intent between the two....then having this conversation is a complete waste of time. You guys have your minds made up because of your personal feelings for one of the fighters.
Romero will go down in history as a cheater now, and every time his name is brought up people are gonna think.....hey look, the cheater stool guy is up next.
Props to him for doing what he had to to get the W. Now he'll always have the stigma of being a dirty fighter, right up there with the Mike Kyles and Gilbert Yvels of the world.
Lol didn't read past the first sentence when you said i was 12, then proceeded to act like I be yourself by having a butt hurt tantrum.
I don't have a hard on for you either, we had an argument where I owned you and you never responded, and I saw your post above where you were spewing the same bullshit, even after you've been proven wrong.
Quit being delusional and quit getting butt hurt that someone sees things differently than you.
Sad you'd rather talk shit and act like a child than defend your point and have a mature debate.
Deaner - Hate420 and soul gravy clearly have agendas and no amount of logic or reason will change their already predetermined opinions on this subject.
Actually we are the only ones with common sense on this thread that can evaluate the situation without our blind hatred for Kennedy getting in the way of rationale.
Lol what an incredibly hypocritical post.
Are you 12 years old or something? Because every time I read your retarded posts that's what I assume. Look, it's obvious you have a hard on for me, so if you wanna suck my dick PM me buttercup.
Let me guess? You're gonna call this post "hypocritical" right? Because that seems to be all you got in every post. Lol
Facts remain, all you bitter bitter Kennedy haters can't look at the situation with normal reason. If you can't see Kennedy's finger accidentally getting stuck(it was actually Romeros fault Tims finger got stuck) and Romero blatantly refuse to get off the stool, and realize the difference in intent between the two....then having this conversation is a complete waste of time. You guys have your minds made up because of your personal feelings for one of the fighters.
Romero will go down in history as a cheater now, and every time his name is brought up people are gonna think.....hey look, the cheater stool guy is up next.
Props to him for doing what he had to to get the W. Now he'll always have the stigma of being a dirty fighter, right up there with the Mike Kyles and Gilbert Yvels of the world.
And for the record Kennedy's finger got caught in the glove because he grabbed Yoel's wrist and then his fingers slid into the glove; this is all very easy to see if you're not a biased fucktard.
Quit calling ppl who aren't on Kennedy's side "haters", especially when YOUR opinion is completely biased.
Furthermore, I'd give Yoel the benefit of the doubt on sitting on the stool since he was most likely exhausted and rocked from ILLEGAL SHOTS.
I'd like to think an Olympian wouldn't intentionally cheat, just like Kennedy probably didn't cheat intentionally, but he definitely took advantage of the situation.
Soul Gravy - Yoel is a piece of shit cheater. And no, Kennedy did not grab the glove. We've been over this already.
Pretty clear here that he did in fact grab the glove.
Now show the gif with about fifteen seconds before and after the clip you posted, please.
Some people just refuse to acknowledge when they're wrong. You're right, we have been over this. It was clear that Tim Kennedy grabbed Yoel's glove, while Yoel actually did nothing wrong at all.
Good no call by bjm. The grab was barely enough to even notice when you watch on replay and imo, inadvertant. If the fight was stopped for every slight fence grab, glove grab, or the like it would certainly slow the pace of the fights. Similar in football, you cant call holding or pass interference every play. Sometimes you just need to let them play
Does this gif paint a more fair unbiased view of the incident to you?
Yes, and completely exonerates Kennedy. Thank you very much for posting it.
The original gif makes it appear that Kennedy is holding on to Romero's glove. As we can obviously see from the extended clip, Kennedy actually begins by holding Romero's wrist. Inadvertently his hand slips down in the heat of battle and you can see his pinky and ring fingers caught in Romero's glove. You can also plainly see that Kennedy is not gripping with his thumb and pointer finger...you know, the fingers necessary for actually gripping something. I think we can all agree if his intention was to actually make a grip on Romero's glove, he would not have chosen such weak fingers with which to make it (and not even enough fingers at all--you can't hold someone's glove with two fingers). What we have here then is a momentary case of accidentally having his fingers caught in Romero's glove and nothing more. You can even see him trying to free his hand.
For a look at blatant illegal uniform gripping, see Anderson Silva against Chael Sonnon. That man knew what he was doing.
The FACT of the matter is that thise shots were still ILLEGAL even if it was inadvertant. Accidental nut shots give u 5 minutes. Accidental knee to the head gets u 5 min.
Either way the shots were illegal and youre a moron. 1st u say ted didnt grab his glives yet its been the replay is clear. Now u say ut was an accident.
Just admit that u were wrong and that kenedy did grab the glove albeit by accident.
Again the shots he landed were illegal regardless. Idiot
To grab you must utilize thumb and pointer finger at the very least. We can see from the footage that Kennedy was not utilizing these fingers. Therefore your contention that he "grabbed" is wrong from the start.
If you want to get specific, it would be a matter of pulling on your opponent's uniform, which is illegal, not illegal. Anderson Silva did this to good effect against Chael and was not punished. So even if Kennedy was grabbing the glove (which he wasn't) there is precedent for that action going unpunished (if you recall, Silva landed punches off the shorts grab).
This is probably the most delusion I've seen on this site.
Quite delusional to say the least
His entire argument is rendered false. The gable grip is a widley known grip which does not use the thumb. Its quite pathetic that u think u can make up a definition for what a grab is.
International or not romero should've gotten 5 minutes. He took matters into his own hands since the illegal/fight changing blows were undetected.
There was precedent for Romero to take a few additional seconds to recover since the ref didnt do his due diligence.
Tim was getting hus ass handed to him before the illegal glove grab
Gable grip often with one hand, do you?
It's better if you don't pretend to know what you're talking about. At least then your ignorance won't be on full display.
Perhaps you were attempting to reference the "C grip" or "monkey grip? Which also requires the use of the pointer finger and is obviously not what's occurring in the video.
Or perhaps the pistol grip, which is truly the only grip utilizing the bottom three fingers, that is, pinky, ring, and middle finger, as the primary gripping fingers? Except that only exists in gi....
Just LOL. What other jokes do you have, funny man?
HULC - The glove grab claim is pretty ridiculous. His fingers look to have slipped into the top of the glove as Romero pulled his arm back, then came free a second or so later, and played no role in anything that happened. Romero staying on his stool however was very blatant and will stay with him the rest of his career.
Huge shots that were a direct result of the glove grab were landed in that 1 second
He only started throwing 1 shot in the time his fingers were in the top of the glove, and that 1 shot didn't even land cleanly. Like i said above, it's a pretty ridiculous claim.
I never got how Kennedy even got the nerve to whine so much. It would be one thing if Yoel stayed on the stool too long then barely won,but Yoel came out and KOed him. How can you even get the nerve to complain after that?
Wait, are we talking about American soldier and American hero Tim Kennedy? Surely such an honorable man would never engage in any conduct that does not befit the best of the best.
