i wanted to make this thread to outline some problems and pluses of sambo in judo.
One of the main problems we have seen for judo guys who compete a lot in sambo is that they tend to be slow in their attacks. This is a big problem in judo. Once they get a grip, they tend to stay and wait. Sambo is much slower than judo in rythm. This hurts their development in judo greatly and many national coaches have complained about that. Especially in international competition, you cannot hold a grip like that and not throw right away. in sambo, thats possible.
the good thing is, the slower tempo of sambo encourages better strength build up. so if you are judoka and spar lots of sambo, you will become stronger.
i won't talk about bad judo habits in sambo. one of them is falling on your stomach, that is usually a point in sambo but no point in judo. at the worlds this year, few guys lost that way because they are used to not having points in judo for falling on the stomach.
anyway...just my experiences and what i've discussed with judo coaches in regards to sambo in eastern europe.
sambo is very good sport, just like judo, they are very similar, but the rules system in sambo is not good in my opinion. matches are too slow (at the worlds in sofia this year), low-scoring and people went for the counter-attack a lot. the cross-gripping doesn't help too, that you can basically block someone and just wait and neither does the penalty system where you have to kill someone to get a penalty, unlike judo, where you sometimes get them too fast (i know, i got 2 in 1 minute once)...anyway...:)
judom those are some very good points and you have good insight into the european judo and sambo scenes
but lets turn this argument around a little
Judos rules and emphesis on sport have watered judo down so much that it is by far the least successful of all the major grappling styles in mma and submission grappling events ,avenues where the rules and techniques are more open .
Considering the popularity and level of athlete involved in judo they should be rivaling wrestling and BJJ as the top dog base martial art in mma. The culture of the incredibly restrictive rules handicap judoka so much that when it comes to real fighting they are two steps behind everyone else.
If I had a choice of training with a top judoka or a top flight sambist I would choose the sambist because thier training and sport(combat,freestyle,and traditional sport sambo)all more closely resemble realistic unarmed combat.
I think you are incorrect for many reasons. First, in Europe, 99.99% of top judoka do not compete in any sub grappling event at all. Neither do top wrestlers. When they do compete occasionally, they do extremelly well.
MMA is definitely not popular here at all too. Despite that, top fighter in the world is a former international judoka: Fedor Emelianenko.
There is no such thing as top sambist. Period. They are all judoka. I'd challenge you to find me one from this year's worlds in sofia.
It always amazes me how little people know about international judo.
Fedor did compete in judo but is a sambist through and through. His MMA game was devleoped by Volk Han and Mikhail Illoukhine at RTT.
I saw Pavel Nastula get completely dominated by Minotouro noguera who though a great MMA fighter is not a top level BJJ stylist.Yoshida has proven to be a mediocre fighter and was made to look helpless vs crocop.I am certain there are a healthy amount of talented Judoka in Japan were MMA is very popular yet relatively few Judoka have made a dent in fighting.
I truley believe that Judo , BJJ , and Sambo are essential the same thing only differentiated by emphasis on certain techniques and different rules . These rules which extremely restricted in Judo take Judoka farther away from reality and create great sport specific athletes but not great fighters
I don't think any sport singe-handendly can produce a top MMA fighter. However, out of judo, bjj and wrestling, i believe judo is the best base to start with.
Nastula isn't a good example, he is way too old and past his prime and moreover, he was doing well with nog until he gassed (same with alexander). Plus some judo guys don't adapt well to mma, just like some bjj guys or wrestlers don't.
There has been very few good international judoka going to mma properly and building up. And that are sufficiently young. You may be forgetting Akiyama, another excellent judoka that becamse k-1 champion quickly. Nakamura, although no international judoka does quite well.
Also, Aoki was a judo player for many many years (many more than bjj) and he is doing well.
As far as this statement "...Fedor did compete in judo but is a sambist through and through.." is completely incorrect.
I'd rather say: Fedor was a good international judoka that occasionally competed in sports sambo (just like 95% of all russian judoka). When he finished judo (after about 15 years of it), he went to mma. He started competing in combat sambo to better transition his judo/sports sambo game to mma rules. Since then he has learned many other things, but his base is judo, specifically, olympic judo.
btw, i don't want to discuss mma...this post was for judo and sambo sports players.
judom I am talking about fighting and self defense which is what 90% of all people training in martial arts are training for.
Judo has lived as a parasite to the olympics for so long I wonder what will happen to Judo when the IOC drops it .
BTW Aoki's game is so far removed from Judo its laughable cnat remember the last time I saw the rubber guard in Judo ... um never
"...Judo has lived as a PARASITE..."...
what are you talking about ?
Judo is the single most popular individual combat sport (many times more competitive than olympic wrestling or boxing say). It is very popular all across europe and asia with many clubs all over the place.
Judo cannot get dropped at all, it is thriving and is getting more and more popular by the year.
Your comments show me you are very mis-informed about judo. good luck in your training.