ooh, thanks!
I visited a few Savate/Box Francaise clubs in France when I lived there.
I still remember the first time I was hit with a fouette.
He got me right below the ribs and it was only a fairly light kick (we were going light) but I had never felt anything like that before.
that website says guy chase is in portsmouth, NH. which is 1.5 hours or so north of boston.
one of guy's students is mark dellagrotte of sityodtong, but I don't think he teaches savate.
I checked his website, and it is only about 2 to 2 1/2 hours from me. I will have to try to get up there for some lessons.
Thanks, guys!
~TT
4 Ranges, can you go into more detail regarding this.....
"I think Duby was the one who coined the phrase "street savate", and as far as I know, he's legit. But, of course, his savate is going to be different from the active gyms and fighters in France. It's like learning BJJ from a tape, and then training at Gracie Barra in Brazil. Same stuff, but different feel."
It was my understanding that Daniel Duby's main teacher was a former ring fighter not to mention those coaches that he trained with after. How is this analogous to learning BJJ from a tape?
C.J.
Calbert:
great question.
There's a saying in BJJ circles that goes "whatever technique you learned today, next week, in Brazil, it will be obsolete." That's how quickly fierce competition forces the competitor to evolve. So whatever you learned from a bjj tape last week or last year will be "passe'" by the time this year's mundials come around. It's like learning bjj from Helio, as opposed to Leozhinho. Their bjj will be different not just because they're individuals, but because one is constantly competing, and the other is not.
Same goes for savate. My friend savatefighter2 competed in the 2002 BF savate assaut competitions (made the semis), and he ran into all types of kicks from all angles. When he competed in the 2003 Ile de France, he was surprised to see how only TWO kicks were being used throughout the matches. Next year it will change again. Active competition makes for constant evolution.
Not saying that Duby's savate isn't sound, but that it'll be different because he hasn't been in the competition scene (as far as I know) for years.
Cool, I see what you're saying now! The Helio vs. Leozhinho analogy made it more clear as opposed to the tape training vs. gracie barra analogy. Thanks.
C.J.
4 Ranges - I see your point but not sure I 100% agree. To give an illustration, Rener and Riron Gracie have been isolated in the Gracie Academy all their lives training under Helio and Rorion 99% of their time. To my knowledge their very first tournaments were when they were brownbelts at around age 20 and they started spanking everybody and winning blackbelt superfights. I think sometimes people overemphasize the "constant evolution of the sport" as opposed to perfect fundamentals which do not change over time.
Daniel Duby is one of the best kickboxers I have ever seen in my life. The man is truly amazing. And yes, it's because of those damn fundamentals.
-Matt Thornton
www.straightblastgym.com
I understand 4 Ranges' comparison, but on the issue, I tend to agree with FatBuddha. Sometimes I think the benifits of the new and improved methods of any art tend to be blown out of proportion.
On a side note, has anyone here ever trained with Salem Assli? I was watching his videos last night and I have to say that I like Daniel Duby's tapes a lot better. I liked the techniqes and strategies that Duby showed better, and it appeared to me that while Assli's stuff seamed a bit fluffy and many times powerless, Duby's stuff appeared as though he had a better command of what he was doing and that it could really work against a real life opponent. I was just wondering if anyone had trained with Assli so they could maybe give me a better idea of his real life ability that may not have been shown on the tapes.
C.J.
Guys, if you look at my original post using the comparison, I said expect it to be "different" not "better."
Those tapes ARE very old! I think they were one of my first martial arts video instructional purchases, maybe around 1994? (10 years ago!). I may have bought the Gracie Basics before them or around the same time (still an excellent set for beginners if you ask me wiht the exception of the guard passing tape) and then maybe the Renzo tapes and then Pedro Carvalho. Ahh, the days when I only had a few tapes, how I miss them!
OK, I'm realizing I am taking this thread off the topic of Savate so let me bring in back - will savate EVER get big in the U.S.? What do you guys think? To me it seems on the verge of dying out here when compared to jiu-jitsu, wrestling or boxing for instance.
Yes, the salem tapes are VERY old. But Salem is solid! Very powerful savateur. I think the main difference between him and Duby is that Duby was actually a ring fighter in France, whereas Salem (as far as I know) never competed in france.
As far as savate's popularity...it's really sad, because it's a dying art even in FRANCE. I asked a french acquaintance of mine once if he had heard of savate. He consulted with his girlfriend and he said "no, we are catholics, we do not have CHABBAT." I said "no, not chabbat, SAVATE." Muay thai, karate, and tkd are more popular.
That said, I don't know if it'll ever be popular here in the U.S. The spandex tenues they wear for competition doesn't help either. :(
LMAO They confused Shabbat with Savate! The guys at Hillel won't believe this!
lol at "The spandex tenues they wear for competition doesn't help either." I think we found the root of the Savate popularity problem.
In my opinion, what Savate needs is kind of a "Gracie in Action" video to market the art. Get Duby and others to kick some ass in bars wearing street clothes and the boot (not spandex mind you), film it, then put all the footage together in a highlight reel.
That being said, how many legitimate Savate masters are left in the world would you estimate? There should be a central information page kind of like bjj.org where people can find them.
fb:
either a GIA type tape, or have them fight in mma and actually do well. The thing about savateurs is that they compete in so many formats, or sometimes label themselves as totally different. Ernesto Hoost started in savate, but it's a little known fact.
As far as savate masters...it's a sport, so instead of "masters" you have athletes and coaches. There are MANY extremely gifted savateurs in the world. Just sick athletes with sick-cardio. But, like soccer, somehow the cross-over to the U.S. didn't happen. Again, the tenue.
There is a savate central homepage, but it's in french. I forget the name.