See any value in point karate?

Seems like now more then ever it would be applicable simply because of the way most fighters play the game.

Not many people willing to stand in the pocket and trade combinations nowadays, and the ones that do are you usually the tough guy brawler types with relatively poor skill levels. Lots of single strike then get out going on nowadays.

maybe we should ask machida

Ninja Lee - 

GSP always attributted his takedowns to the karate style blitz. I think a combination of points fighting with Muay Thai and boxing is one of the best combinations.

Michael Page is a great example of British freestyle kickboxing. He was ace on the points and continuous circuits, you can see how his distancing and timing is way above his current competition.


GSP:s karate style background isnt pointfighting its fullcontact (kyokushin). GSP has never trained the wide stance of pointkarate (machida style) biggest organisation for pointstyle i think is shotokan..


Kyokushin - style (GSP)



 


Ashihara -style (Semmy Schilt K1 - Glory kickboxing, Davit kiria Glory) - throws allowed - grabbing the head allowed



 


now compare those two against point styles.. stance is different - kicking techniqe - punching techniqe everything is different from pointfighting..


 

I dunno, I have a shotokan vid in this thread that looks nothing like the wide stance (which you might use just for that game but not use in another setting). But I agree the wide sideways stance is not good for mma. Those vids, though:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkP4TI7FSes

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IEfhbz_xfg

Sabaki - 
Ninja Lee - 

GSP always attributted his takedowns to the karate style blitz. I think a combination of points fighting with Muay Thai and boxing is one of the best combinations.

Michael Page is a great example of British freestyle kickboxing. He was ace on the points and continuous circuits, you can see how his distancing and timing is way above his current competition.


GSP:s karate style background isnt pointfighting its fullcontact (kyokushin). GSP has never trained the wide stance of pointkarate (machida style) biggest organisation for pointstyle i think is shotokan..


Kyokushin - style (GSP)



 


Ashihara -style (Semmy Schilt K1 - Glory kickboxing, Davit kiria Glory) - throws allowed - grabbing the head allowed



 


now compare those two against point styles.. stance is different - kicking techniqe - punching techniqe everything is different from pointfighting..


 




That's not really something you can debate, GSP himself attributes his success with takedowns to the karate blitz / shooting style footwork. I think it was an interview with Joe Rogan but could be wrong on that!


I never said GSP was a points fighter. If you re-read you will see that I said; "GSP always attributted his takedowns to the karate style blitz." Not "GSP is a karate points fighter". Happy to clear that up!


I'm from a karate background myself and quite familiar with the different styles.

I don't see the point.


Get it? Phone Post 3.0

Raymond Daniels and Michael Page are probably the best sport karate point fighters to make the jump to full contact kickboxing & MMA.

The main thing that sets this style apart from other striking styles are distance, timing & footwork. With concepts of being the1st to connect and evading before blocking. Most people aren't used to fighting from outside kicking range.

The average person will watch fighters like Page, Machida & Raymond. Think they are just running around or away. With their hands down or flailing around and dont understand what's going on. Its the point fighters version of two guys working for position control and posture on the ground. Phone Post 3.0

Just like every base martial art it has its strengths and weaknesses as far as MMA is concerned Phone Post 3.0

Other than Machida the only person I have seen use a Karate style is Ryan Jimmo.  Obivously point scoring means nothing in MMA, but the movement and transfer can be invaluable...unless you match up against a BJJ blackbelt with wicked takedows.

Ninja Lee - 
Sabaki - 
Ninja Lee - 

GSP always attributted his takedowns to the karate style blitz. I think a combination of points fighting with Muay Thai and boxing is one of the best combinations.

Michael Page is a great example of British freestyle kickboxing. He was ace on the points and continuous circuits, you can see how his distancing and timing is way above his current competition.


GSP:s karate style background isnt pointfighting its fullcontact (kyokushin). GSP has never trained the wide stance of pointkarate (machida style) biggest organisation for pointstyle i think is shotokan..


Kyokushin - style (GSP)



 


Ashihara -style (Semmy Schilt K1 - Glory kickboxing, Davit kiria Glory) - throws allowed - grabbing the head allowed



 


now compare those two against point styles.. stance is different - kicking techniqe - punching techniqe everything is different from pointfighting..


 




That's not really something you can debate, GSP himself attributes his success with takedowns to the karate blitz / shooting style footwork. I think it was an interview with Joe Rogan but could be wrong on that!


I never said GSP was a points fighter. If you re-read you will see that I said; "GSP always attributted his takedowns to the karate style blitz." Not "GSP is a karate points fighter". Happy to clear that up!


I'm from a karate background myself and quite familiar with the different styles.




I think its interesting that GSP said that. Its probably a personal context of GSP's but perhaps he developed closing the distance against strikes from his karate days, who knows but then again, who can really argue with what a fighter says themselves.

GSP's wrestling was the best but it was because he could set up and time countering strikes to shooting in addition to his explosive shooting ability.

dignan - 

Other than Machida the only person I have seen use a Karate style is Ryan Jimmo.  Obivously point scoring means nothing in MMA, but the movement and transfer can be invaluable...unless you match up against a BJJ blackbelt with wicked takedows.


Machida is the only point/traditional karate person thats made it elite level. Stephen Wonderboy Thomson is another who is doing ok. Most other karate guys in MMA and KB are usually from full contact styles.

Anderson and Pettis (and Koch?) had TKD backgrounds and i think its shows in their styles, they are not typical MMA KBers.

Sabaki - 
Ninja Lee - 

GSP always attributted his takedowns to the karate style blitz. I think a combination of points fighting with Muay Thai and boxing is one of the best combinations.

Michael Page is a great example of British freestyle kickboxing. He was ace on the points and continuous circuits, you can see how his distancing and timing is way above his current competition.


GSP:s karate style background isnt pointfighting its fullcontact (kyokushin). GSP has never trained the wide stance of pointkarate (machida style) biggest organisation for pointstyle i think is shotokan..


Kyokushin - style (GSP)



 


Ashihara -style (Semmy Schilt K1 - Glory kickboxing, Davit kiria Glory) - throws allowed - grabbing the head allowed



 


now compare those two against point styles.. stance is different - kicking techniqe - punching techniqe everything is different from pointfighting..


 



 


GSP did kyokushin, yes. But at a young age.


 


He would not have done much full contact knockdown fighting.


he would probably have done light -touch "clickers" fighting -a ruleset invented in the UK and used mainly for kids in kyokushin in some places (Canada being one of them). And sometimes for beginners.


Basically it is continuous point sparring, where the judge has a "clicker" in each hand. one for each fighter, and "click"  (= score 1 point) for every hit.


 


 Here it is used by two guys past their knockdown career.


//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK8REAPuGgQ&rel=0

If it is not ovious to everyone.

Point karate =/= point karate!

There are several types of "point karate" out there and they are NOT the same, and they are NOT equal.

The international point karate of WKF is not the same as the international point karate of WKF, and neither are close to the ridiculous american point karate that mainly focuses on foot-fencing.

Everything comes down to application. Machida has shown that it works.

 

And clearly you can be deadly and lethal with your pointkaratetraining.

 

If machida hasnt convinced you - these guys will

Wasa-B - 
dignan - 

Other than Machida the only person I have seen use a Karate style is Ryan Jimmo.  Obivously point scoring means nothing in MMA, but the movement and transfer can be invaluable...unless you match up against a BJJ blackbelt with wicked takedows.


Machida is the only point/traditional karate person thats made it elite level. Stephen Wonderboy Thomson is another who is doing ok. Most other karate guys in MMA and KB are usually from full contact styles.

Anderson and Pettis (and Koch?) had TKD backgrounds and i think its shows in their styles, they are not typical MMA KBers.



I am much more familiar with Sport TKD and have seen major variances in technique at local, national, and international tournaments.  I have to guess that this is the same for point Karate, and like sport TKD, only the very best players are able to transfer their skill to MMA.


The basic kicks in sport TKD are very similar to kickboxing(and IMO well trained sport TKD may be better), but the key is all in the movement, timing, checks, and speed.


Not trying to derail the conversation, but there is likely something useful in almost every martial art.  When push comes to shove, however, it is best to have a seriously solid ground game and every champion in MMA seems to prove this.


BJJ, wrestling, SAMBO.

Sure, to kick people in the neck Phone Post 3.0

Sabaki - 

Everything comes down to application. Machida has shown that it works.

 

And clearly you can be deadly and lethal with your pointkaratetraining.

 

If machida hasnt convinced you - these guys will


heh

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXdmgBTxon0

I think it's great for being able to close the distance quickly. 

 

As far as light contact point fighting. Rafael Aghayev is awesome to watch! Also his training for explosive speed is unreal! He's all over youtube Phone Post 3.0

I cant believe i forgot to mention Kyoji Horiguchi! He seems to be a point guy but with more power. He doesnt look like a Kyokushin or full contact style guy, he darts in and out. Anyone know what his background is?

Then there was the complete humiliation of Kikuno just recently but he is a Kyokushin guy who used to be pretty good, just look at his fight with Eddie Alvarez and Dida for examples.