Mauro Ranallo famously compared Fedor as the Kasparov of MMA. He was on a completely different level in his prime and was able to find wins even in the worst positions such as being almost beheaded by Fujita, almost being broken in half by Randelman, etc.
cuttooth -The Immortal One -cuttooth -The Immortal One -cuttooth -The Immortal One -cuttooth -The Immortal One -cuttooth -The Immortal One -cuttooth -The Immortal One -sparkuri -MM8 -The Lion King -If Jones decided to compete at heavyweight then he would be the best heavyweight ever and would beat any heavyweight ever.
But out of the fighters who have actually competed at heavyweight
1. Fedor - outstruck CroCop and Hunt. Outgrappled Nog and multiple Olympic judoka and wrestlers
2. Nog - Best jiu jitsu practitioner in HW history (outgrappled Werdum) along with amazing boxing, cardio, etc.
3. Crocop - World class kickboxer with impeccable TDD
4. Overeem - World class kickboxer with impeccable TDD
5. Werdum - 2nd best BJJ practitioner in HW history with high level striking. Dangerous everywhere
Honorable mention: Cain
Amazing boxing? lol wow
Name a better pure boxer at HW before Nog, or even after.
Ill name four: dc, cain, stipe, frank mir during mir's prime
Also Nog didn't get really dangerous on the feet until after 2005/2006 or after Pride when he was training regularly with Blackhouse and anderson silva
In pride, he was a good technical boxer but unfortunately didn't have takedown defense or the ability to KO guys on the feet just yet
Nog peaked technically & athletically when he outboxed Kharitonov in 2004 and only ever knocked out complete glassjaws like Schaub anyway, he also never learned particularly great TDD because he didn't need it, it was antithetical to his style
Big Nog sure as hell could have used takedown defense against fedor especially in their last fight.
Kharitonov was green with only 9 mma fights when he fought nogueria and kharitonov also didn't have TDD when he fought big nog, so he was worried about the takedown which negated his striking and STILL made it very close on the feet.
Big Nog beat Sergei with takedowns, if the fight stayed on the feet the whole fight, sergei would have beaten him.
Big Nog's peak was not 2004, it was closer to 2006 to arguably 2009, when he became more dangerous on the feet and sat back on his punches to drop guys. He didn't start seriously training with blackhouse mma until he left pride, and that's what took him to the next level.
If you don't believe me, watch nog starting in 2009 when he was dropping guys left and right. His timing and power was on point then.
In Pride, Nogueria was younger yes with less mileage but much less dangerous on the feet with no takedown defense.
If Fedor fought big nog in 2009, fedor would have been dropped and probably submitted. Look at Big Nog's improved boxing against couture vs Fedor getting easily jabbed by rogers on the feet with his looping hooks.
Big Nog got blasted by right hand leads and lancing jabs in the 3rd fight as much as he got taken down. Takedowns were just Fedor's natural tactic following a clinch entry from the outside. Nog couldn't keep up with him either way. Nog's boxing got very tight in the tournament, he was outboxing Sergei, outjabbing him, drawing out his jab and coming back over with the right hand, very sharp stuff.
Nog was basically washed in 2009, Herring all but knocked him out in 2007, Sylvia dominated and dropped him before getting submitted, he was slowing, and was gaining nonfunctional weight (ie fat). He was 240+ by that time, he was 225 at his physical peak (2001-2004).
Nog's boxing looked good against Couture because Couture was smaller and was always hurt easily by bigger man, Nog is using the same 1-2-3's he was using against Heath Herring the first time, there's no identifiable technical overhaul you can reference other than "Couture got dropped".
Nog beat Sergei with takedowns in an mma fight. If you follow Sergei, you know that he takes shots in the beginning and stalks his opponent and finishes them with big shots a little later in the fight. He took a few more shots from nog than he needed to because he was inexperienced with 8 fights in MMA when they fought. And he was never hurt and still made it a competitive fight.
Put nog and sergei in a boxing match where Sergei doenst have to worry about takedowns and nog gets finished
Lol at nog being washed up at age 32. Sylvia hit nog with good shots (that was prime Sylvia btw unless you want to take away from fedors win over Sylvia too), but what about cro cop? Wasn't cro cop dominating him too before he lost? Bob Sapp? That's nogs style. Nog was peaked towards the END of his pride days and early ufc days. His striking improved with blackhouse mma whether you want to admit it or not.
You just don't want to give Mir credit for being the first guy to actually finish him lmao.
Nogs timing technique and power all improved on the feet AFTER his last fedor fight. Sorry
Nog outboxed Sergei. He won in all areas. Rewatch the fight, kiddo.
The rest of your post is a desperate re-statement of your others where you don't actually say how he technically improved as he reached his mid-30's.
And Mir outboxed nog.
A guy with 26 fights made it a close fight on the feet against an 8-0 sergei at the time, had to resort to takedowns to win.
What are u trying to prove anyway? Mir finished big nog twice and his wins over nog were better than any of fedors wins over nog
You clearly have little eye for boxing or fighting if you think Nog was in better form from 2006-onwards than he was before
Nog dropped Herman, couture, schaub and Mir in the ufc. Werdum even admitted that nog tagged him with big shots in their second fight.
If his striking was so good in 2003/2004 then who did he drop before 2005?
Nog improved his striking with blackhouse mma
Truth hurts but you'll get over it
HERMAN
Lol exactly.
Once you get down to the details and the actual truth, none of these pride fedor elitist fanboys have anything to say.
That's when they throw personal insults lmao.
PROPER WOOK.
king u said HERMAN
That's right, u call me king from now on. Don't come at the king ever again!
The Immortal One -
LOL at your obvious backhanded compliments of Big Nog!
Saying that 2009 Nog (one fight against thrice declining Couture) was in his “prime”.
GTFO
Sandwiched between uncharacteristic losses to Cain and Mir – Not absolutely had an entertaining fight with Couture.
I love that fight for all that it showcased…
But I would also consider it a “masters division” fight.
There is a reason we call UfC era Nog ““Zombie Nog””.
And by “we” I mean posters who know their shit, but are also fair within appropriate context (a group you seem to purposefully tey not to belong to).
You think just because Zombie Nog at 20 lbs heavier caught and dropped a few guys, that means he was a better fighter??
LOL
A fighter gaining a little power with age – as everything else slows down – is not at all uncommon.
Toughness, experience, and seasoned killer instinct – combined with a bit of desperation – have and will continue to provide heroic swan song moments for aging fighters.
This is nothing new.
Watch Zombie Nog move.
There is a world if difference.
His timing, reflex, and fluidity are just not there.
Plus – as unbelievable as it may have been – the wars started taking a toll on his chin.
Frank Mir said he didn’t even believe he would be beat Nog after the first fight.
You are drawing flawed conclusions from overconfidence in intermediate knowledge.
Opinions vary.
But I don’t think I’ve heard anyone who has been around this thing pre-Pride, suggest that UFC Zombie Nog was prime Nog.
As usual, context is needed.
onepunchJD - The Immortal One -LOL at your obvious backhanded compliments of Big Nog!
Saying that 2009 Nog (one fight against thrice declining Couture) was in his “prime”.
GTFO
Sandwiched between uncharacteristic losses to Cain and Mir – Not absolutely had an entertaining fight with Couture.
I love that fight for all that it showcased…
But I would also consider it a “masters division” fight.
There is a reason we call UfC era Nog ““Zombie Nog””.
And by “we” I mean posters who know their shit, but are also fair within appropriate context (a group you seem to purposefully tey not to belong to).
You think just because Zombie Nog at 20 lbs heavier caught and dropped a few guys, that means he was a better fighter??
LOL
A fighter gaining a little power with age – as everything else slows down – is not at all uncommon.
Toughness, experience, and seasoned killer instinct – combined with a bit of desperation – have and will continue to provide heroic swan song moments for aging fighters.
This is nothing new.
Watch Zombie Nog move.
There is a world if difference.
His timing, reflex, and fluidity are just not there.
Plus – as unbelievable as it may have been – the wars started taking a toll on his chin.
Frank Mir said he didn’t even believe he would be beat Nog after the first fight.
You are drawing flawed conclusions from overconfidence in intermediate knowledge.
Opinions vary.
But I don’t think I’ve heard anyone who has been around this thing pre-Pride, suggest that UFC Zombie Nog was prime Nog.
As usual, context is needed.
dude you’re just repeating yourself over and over again with no facts to back it up
we get it, you don’t think nog was at his prime in the UFC
when was nog at his prime then?
I said 2006-2009 was when he was probably at his best because his STRIKING, key word striking improved at the end of pride to his early/middle ufc days.
He didn’t have any power in his striking when he fought fedor in 2003/2004. He was also a ragdoll pretty much and didn’t have any takedown defense in pride. Yes he had good submissions, but his striking wasn’t dangerous enough to threaten fedor on the feet, and his wrestling wasn’t good enough to take fedor down himself.
BUT, in 2009, if big nog fought fedor again, fedor gets dropped and subbed. By that point, nog was improving his boxing big time and he probably would have dropped fedor. Did you see fedor swinging wildly and getting tagged at will by lindland and arlovski (nog isn’t gonna go for a flying knee against fedor)? Rogers was jabbing fedor at will too and broke his nose with a huge jab.
Nog tagged werdum with a good shot in 2006, hurt barnett on the feet in 2006, outstruck herring in 2007 besides the one headkick, dropped couture in 2009, dropped mir in 2011, dropped schaub in 2011 and KOed him, dropped herman in 2012, and tagged werdum with good shots in 2013 (werdum admitted this) so werdum had to take big nog down to get the win.
Thanks to starting to train with blackhouse, Big Nog showed steady improvement in his striking from 2006 and onward until his age and mileage finally caught up to him, but where was this incredible dangerous striking of big nog in the 2003/2004 time period?
Another myth debunked by yours truly
Who gives a fuck about Nog. Fedor smeshed him. Not in the discussion.
Fedor
The Immortal One -onepunchJD - The Immortal One -LOL at your obvious backhanded compliments of Big Nog!
Saying that 2009 Nog (one fight against thrice declining Couture) was in his “prime”.
GTFO
Sandwiched between uncharacteristic losses to Cain and Mir – Not absolutely had an entertaining fight with Couture.
I love that fight for all that it showcased…
But I would also consider it a “masters division” fight.
There is a reason we call UfC era Nog ““Zombie Nog””.
And by “we” I mean posters who know their shit, but are also fair within appropriate context (a group you seem to purposefully tey not to belong to).
You think just because Zombie Nog at 20 lbs heavier caught and dropped a few guys, that means he was a better fighter??
LOL
A fighter gaining a little power with age – as everything else slows down – is not at all uncommon.
Toughness, experience, and seasoned killer instinct – combined with a bit of desperation – have and will continue to provide heroic swan song moments for aging fighters.
This is nothing new.
Watch Zombie Nog move.
There is a world if difference.
His timing, reflex, and fluidity are just not there.
Plus – as unbelievable as it may have been – the wars started taking a toll on his chin.
Frank Mir said he didn’t even believe he would be beat Nog after the first fight.
You are drawing flawed conclusions from overconfidence in intermediate knowledge.
Opinions vary.
But I don’t think I’ve heard anyone who has been around this thing pre-Pride, suggest that UFC Zombie Nog was prime Nog.
As usual, context is needed.
dude you’re just repeating yourself over and over again with no facts to back it up
we get it, you don’t think nog was at his prime in the UFC
when was nog at his prime then?
I said 2006-2009 was when he was probably at his best because his STRIKING, key word striking improved at the end of pride to his early/middle ufc days.
He didn’t have any power in his striking when he fought fedor in 2003/2004. He was also a ragdoll pretty much and didn’t have any takedown defense in pride. Yes he had good submissions, but his striking wasn’t dangerous enough to threaten fedor on the feet, and his wrestling wasn’t good enough to take fedor down himself.
BUT, in 2009, if big nog fought fedor again, fedor gets dropped and subbed. By that point, nog was improving his boxing big time and he probably would have dropped fedor. Did you see fedor swinging wildly and getting tagged at will by lindland and arlovski (nog isn’t gonna go for a flying knee against fedor)? Rogers was jabbing fedor at will too and broke his nose with a huge jab.
Nog tagged werdum with a good shot in 2006, hurt barnett on the feet in 2006, outstruck herring in 2007 besides the one headkick, dropped couture in 2009, dropped mir in 2011, dropped schaub in 2011 and KOed him, dropped herman in 2012, and tagged werdum with good shots in 2013 (werdum admitted this) so werdum had to take big nog down to get the win.
Thanks to starting to train with blackhouse, Big Nog showed steady improvement in his striking from 2006 and onward until his age and mileage finally caught up to him, but where was this incredible dangerous striking of big nog in the 2003/2004 time period?
Another myth debunked by yours truly
Repeating myself?
That was my second post in this thread.
If you really think UFC Zombie Nog was the best version of Big Nog, I don’t know what else to say, other than you are in a very small minority with that “opinion”.
That said – I do see a larger, not-so-subtle agenda with your posts.
You start with a disingenuous backhanded compliment about Big Nog being at his best in the UFC – because he seemed to gain punching power.
The implication there is that Cain and Mir beat “prime” Nog.
You go further into your agenda by stating that UFC Nog would have beat Fedor – furthering your unspoken implication that Pride era fighters, especially Fedor, were inferior to that era of UFC fighters.
Cain/Mir > Zombie Nog > Fedor.
LOL
You are predictable as usual.
You’re like an MSM partisan commentator – albiet not a very good one – on the UG.
You cherry pick and spin for page after page, thread after thread – all in the interest of an underlying agenda seeking to discredit Fedor.
Your thinnly veiled backhanded compliments are a poor cover.
You have even pushed the boundaries of absurdity so far as to paint UFC era Nog as prime Nog – an opinion more rare than the DoDo bird.
Oh well – carry on 