dsparks got it right,rib injury is the worst.
"was taken to the hospital for x-rays immediately after"
What did the x-rays show?
"there is no way he lost that much gas between rd 2 and 3 without an injury"
Exactly.
Who gasses out like that?
"I have had that injury before, besides the point."
I don't think it is... especially if your familiar with this injury. I have wrestled with a sprained AC joint, a sprained ankle twice, ...When I fought in a 4 man, I fought with my eye swollen shut, and a busted hand in the second fight.
I have also separated my rib, not in a fight but in practice. Maybe there is different degrees of this injury but if you had it same as I did, then you should know there is no way your gonna fight thru it.
It simply wrecks your core body mechanics, you can't throw a punch right, you couldn't shoot, No way in hell you could dig out an armbar against a halfway decent guy.
It wrecks your breathing, it makes you weak, and wrecks your movement.
Everybody gets hurt...BJ got hurt and it cost him the fight. Matt Hughes won the fight... none of this is in question in my mind.
In a rematch though, I'm putting cash down on BJ Penn...and I wouldnt have done that before I saw BJ rip him up for two rounds.
Oh and about the triangle choke. that reversed-upside down triangle position is more of a control position... you can choke/crank a guy if he rolls to his back by grabbing the other arm an pull your body up, but from top you really can't choke from there...this is one of my favorite sub positions btw.
You really keep that from top to try and dig an armbar or push the arm across the same side leg to kimura... that or roll out into an omoplata if the guy manages to get his head out.
I don't think BJ was trying to sub him with the triangle...He was trying to sub him with an armbar, which is a much better sub from there.
The triangle isn't even really a sub, unless you can get the guy rolled and leverage him.
"then you should know there is no way your gonna fight thru it."
Apparently there is, since BJ was quite active and mobile for the following 1:40 after the injury.
"What did the x-rays show?"
orcus... i haven't spoken to bj or anyone in their camp SINCE then, but i'm guessing, since bj himself discussed having the messed up rib(s) when he returned to hawaii in the interview for his website, that it must indeed be messed up...
if he says they are... good enough for me... especially since he doesn't seem to be using the injury as an "excuse" like so many claim / think / etc...
and don't get me wrong...
i, in NO way, think this is an "excuse" for losing the fight...
it might contribute to being part of the "explanation" but definitely not an "excuse"... and it sounds like bj feels the same way and gives matt hughes FULL credit for winning...
imo, only way you could use the rib thing as an "excuse" would be if bj was claiming he had the injury before the fight, which neither he, or anyone in his camp, is obviously claiming...
nope... obviously happened during the fight...
hughes himself may very well have caused the injury (which then... again... he deserves credit for) and maybe bj just didn't notice or maybe it didn't finally give out until he was transitioning to take the back...
whatever... that's all conjecture on my part at this point...
and what nobody seems to be saying is that maybe it's not so black and white...
maybe it was a combination of his cardio starting to fade some AND the rib injury...
bj penn is probably my favorite fighter of all time but that doesn't mean i can't acknowledge what seems to be his strengths and weaknesses as perceived in past performances...
do i think bj has the potential to beat just about anyone?...
absolutely...
do i think he needs to improve his cardio (regardless of the rib injury issue)?
also... absolutely...
now... do i ALSO think that matt hughes deserves 100% full credit for winning that fight, and going down in history as being the first person EVER to finish bj?
once again... ABSOLUTELY!!!
it was a fantastic and exciting fight to watch...
i sincerely hope we get to see a rubber match somewhere down the line...
not necessarily right away...
i'd like to see them both fight some different guys first and then hopefully meet up somewhere down the road, maybe sometime next year...
regardless of whether you love or hate bj, judging from the literally hundreds of threads about the fight after it happened, i'm guessing most would also be interested...
just my $0.02... :-)
yep not necessarily right away, i agree, too
I wanna see Hughes-GSP fight first
Whilst Penn heals up and rethinks about his training regimen..
Would love to see Penn regain some of his explosiveness again like the way he fought Gomi, Duane Ludwig, Uno, and Din Thomas fights.
Instead of just standing for the standup battle and having him being pushed around by the takedown attempts committed by his opponents of late
Hey Penn, u went to train with Fedor for awhile, right? Use some of that sledgehammer thingie he must have showed u! Once u are back on track after the healing.
"and what nobody seems to be saying is that maybe it's not so black and white...
maybe it was a combination of his cardio starting to fade some AND the rib injury..."
That's a very good point as well... could definitely be a combination. I just think cardio contributed at least a bit.
C
Great post by RAZEGEAR though I take exception to this:
"do i ALSO think that matt hughes deserves 100% full credit for winning that fight,and going down in history as being the first person EVER to finish bj?"
To be fair, Matt didn't technically finish BJ since BJM stopped the fight. BJ was still awake, alert and fighting best he could (which admittedly was not very good at that point) but he wasn't knocked out and did not submit
just my $.02
From Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer newsletter:
"Penn had to be hospitalized after the fight, complaining of injured ribs (all tests came out negative) and dehydration."