before they teach groundwork which is where they want to fight a pre requisite should be to become expert at takedowns before learning any ground.If you want to fight on the ground takedowns are as important as ground work and should not be neglected in drills and sparring.
werdum has already provided us with a paradigm for successful bjj
werent they saying Werdum took Cormier down 3 times in practice ? what a load of crap.Then he butt scoots 100 times and gives the fight away by avoiding fighting.U want to fight on the ground...great but if u are great on the ground you should be great at getting the fight there.Otherwise all ur greeat BJJ is useless as shown in this fight
Solution: stop rewarding takedowns that lead to nothing, then wrestlers are forced to actually fight and they will either get the TKO or get subbed.
takedowns are points they always will be points How about learning to stop the takedown which is points for takedown defence.U get takin down and its a stalemate the guy who is getting the takedown wins the fight Dont like it ? beat the style .Actually fight ? are u kiddding me ? wrestlers take on all comers.Finish ? Have u seen Cain Valasquez fight ? U know UFC Heavyweight champ who finishes fights.Didnt he finihs BJJer legand Nogiera what about Jon Jones UFC champ who finishes everyone.Ill go on later I have to run now
i agree when a Gray Maynard or Chad Mendes take u down and lay on you it shouldnt be much points.U can cry all u want but they are getting takedown points but shouldnt get much more
Winston Wolf - werent they saying Werdum took Cormier down 3 times in practice ? what a load of crap.
That does sound like a load of crap, but to play devil's advocate...
If he did take him down it's because Cormier wasn't kneeing, punching and elbowing him when he was trying.
I don't know Werdum didn't just clinch and pull to closed guard. I know it's not the ideal way to get it to the ground, but at that point, it seemed like a no brainer.
fabes the only chance Werdan would have to take down Cormier is to catch a kick.In striaght wrestling its a load of utter bullcrap unless Cormier let him.If his takedowns were soo good why was he butt scooting instead of taking Overeem down.If hed have takin Overeem down and landed on top he may have been able to sub him That was his only chance He didnt because he couldnt and I satnd by that him taking Cormier down 3 times is as belivable as King Mo getting subbed by James Toney.Fabes I like u and all but u always playing Devils advocate with me which is fine PS when u comg up to LI.Beers and joints on me
I think you misunderstood me. I agree with you that it's pretty unlikely that Werdum ever really out wrestled Cormier. That sounds suspicious to me too. I agree with you.
I plan on going up to LI probably the end of the year. I'll let you know.
i think its the same thing as when they said Toney subbed King MOs.Toneys subs were so bad they had to lie.They brag about how good Werdans takedowns were then he didnt once try and get a real takedown and resorted to UFC 1 butt scooting and looking like crap doing it.
Winston Wolf - i think its the same thing as when they said Toney subbed King MOs.Toneys subs were so bad they had to lie.They brag about how good Werdans takedowns were then he didnt once try and get a real takedown and resorted to UFC 1 butt scooting and looking like crap doing it.
He actually had some decent guard pulls man. There were times when Reem would move into him where he'd use that momentum to pull him to the ground.
He also flopped and stalled LOL
Winston Wolf - takedowns are points they always will be points How about learning to stop the takedown which is points for takedown defence.U get takin down and its a stalemate the guy who is getting the takedown wins the fight Dont like it ? beat the style .Actually fight ? are u kiddding me ? wrestlers take on all comers.Finish ? Have u seen Cain Valasquez fight ? U know UFC Heavyweight champ who finishes fights.Didnt he finihs BJJer legand Nogiera what about Jon Jones UFC champ who finishes everyone.Ill go on later I have to run now
First of all you don't get points for takedown defence. This has been proven. You can stop 10 takedowns in a round, give up one with a minute left and you are almost guaranteed to lose the round. E.g. Nog-Davis.
Why should anyone get points for a takedown if it leads to nothing? We reward the takedown because it puts the guy in a supposedly dominant position to win the fight, but if he gets the takedown and does nothing then it's not a dominant position and should not be rewarded.
Yeah I've seen Jon Jones and Cain V. Cain ain't finishing no-one with wrestling. He's finishing them with boxing, which he's been training for half a decade now. Jones beat Shogun with MT and Bader with BJJ. Wrestling was instrumental in the Hamill victory, but not many others.
But that's besides the point because we both know I was referring to people like Guida and Fitch who do nothing from guard and just stall to get the easy UD because they know the rules favour lay and pray.
I think the color of purple belt in BJJ should be all about takedowns.
I would suggest banning punching and kicks.
GodSaveTheQueen -Winston Wolf - takedowns are points they always will be points How about learning to stop the takedown which is points for takedown defence.U get takin down and its a stalemate the guy who is getting the takedown wins the fight Dont like it ? beat the style .Actually fight ? are u kiddding me ? wrestlers take on all comers.Finish ? Have u seen Cain Valasquez fight ? U know UFC Heavyweight champ who finishes fights.Didnt he finihs BJJer legand Nogiera what about Jon Jones UFC champ who finishes everyone.Ill go on later I have to run now
First of all you don't get points for takedown defence. This has been proven. You can stop 10 takedowns in a round, give up one with a minute left and you are almost guaranteed to lose the round. E.g. Nog-Davis.
Why should anyone get points for a takedown if it leads to nothing? We reward the takedown because it puts the guy in a supposedly dominant position to win the fight, but if he gets the takedown and does nothing then it's not a dominant position and should not be rewarded.
Yeah I've seen Jon Jones and Cain V. Cain ain't finishing no-one with wrestling. He's finishing them with boxing, which he's been training for half a decade now. Jones beat Shogun with MT and Bader with BJJ. Wrestling was instrumental in the Hamill victory, but not many others.
But that's besides the point because we both know I was referring to people like Guida and Fitch who do nothing from guard and just stall to get the easy UD because they know the rules favour lay and pray.
i agree im not a fan of Fitch or Guida But i would not put all wrestlers in that category.,Its also unfair to say Cain and Jones arent winning with wrestling Take away their great wrestling and neither are champs
Yeah. The problem isn't even wrestling. It's the rules. Being on top of someone is overvalued in the rules.
Yeah. The problem isn't even wrestling. It's the rules. Being on top of someone is overvalued in the rules.
Remember, original Gracie JJ was basically Judo+Plus! Rolls trained a lot with famed American wrestling coach, Bob Anderson. (who was also Dan Henderson and Randy C. wrestling coach). Many of the old guard BJJ guys came from a Judo background. Gracie Miami, a very traditional BJJ school, even has a Judo class.
The popularity of sport BJJ and submission grappling has destroyed the takedown aspect of BJJ.
It was BJJ that showed the world the power of the clinch. The clinch is all but forgotten in most modern BJJ player's game.
The popularity of sport BJJ and submission grappling has destroyed the takedown aspect of BJJ.
It was BJJ that showed the world the power of the clinch. The clinch is all but forgotten in most modern BJJ player's game.
nowaydo - var so = new SWFObject("http://www.youtube.com/v/rCf2_5nR09k?version=3&hl=en_US", "postVideo-34814580-Flash", "425", "355", "9.0.28", "##000"); so.addParam("allowScriptAccess", "samedomain"); so.addParam("allowNetworking", "internal"); so.addParam("wmode", "transparent"); so.write("postVideo-34814580"); Remember, original Gracie JJ was basically Judo+Plus! Rolls trained a lot with famed American wrestling coach, Bob Anderson. (who was also Dan Henderson and Randy C. wrestling coach). Many of the old guard BJJ guys came from a Judo background. Gracie Miami, a very traditional BJJ school, even has a Judo class.
The popularity of sport BJJ and submission grappling has destroyed the takedown aspect of BJJ.
It was BJJ that showed the world the power of the clinch. The clinch is all but forgotten in most modern BJJ player's game.
GREAT vid man!! i loved seeing that...its what is needed in MMA spots as well as other combat arts system imo.
Do this, have the Gracies learn Catch Wrestling, then let them say the Catch part was a super secret form only the Gracie family would ever know and are now releasing the techniques because MMA has changed so much. Problem SOLVED!