Only should be stood up if there is no action.
Yes, boring fights are not good for the sport. So the logical solution to this problem would be to penalize fighters for inactivity. Not award someone a free stand up for being boring. That just promotes boring groundfighting. Isn't that just common sense though?
The problem is, a lot of times it's the fighter on top stalling. Remember the day when you get a takedown, and hold a person down doing little to no damage and make no attempts to actually beat them, just ride out a decision, you got it? What happened? Boring fights.
If two people are going for subs on the ground, then by all means let it go on, or if one is trying to and is effectively striking the other, let it go. But if it's a stalemate, or one is just trying to be positionall dominant, stand it up. I'm watching a MMA match, not a BJJ tourny.
I do like Prides idea of a yellow card for stalling, but it leaves a little too much power in the ref's hands IMO. Maybe have the judges signal the ref for a standup and/or yellowcard.
If you are stalling whether it be on top or bottom you should be punished. Whats wrong with that?
wasabi-good post.John Mcarthy is about as inconsistant as they come,when it comes to standups,ive seen him stand people up when theres alot of action{g&p}going on.Fighters should be encouraged pre-fight,in dressing room,in rules,whatever that stalling will not be tolerated,and fighters who stall should be given say disadvantages that affect the way the fight outcome is.Standups are a bad idea i think U.F.C will eventually be more striker orientated,giving grappling more of a backseat.The funny thing is when there were no stand-ups ala 1993,94,95,the U.F.C was at its most popular.
There's nothing that technical about GNP or LNP fighters.
They have always been the sloppiest and least technical fighters in the sport.
Fedor has opened a new light on GNP, because he will turn his pounding into a RNC or an armbar if he gets the opening unlike the Kerr's, Coleman's, Randleman's or Matt Hughes' of the sport.
Now the technical yet aggressive Jujitsu fighters, they are awesome to watch work. They are always going for something and constantly working towards a finish vs controling their opponents.
randy is a ground and pound fighter
matt hughes is exciting to watch also
wasabi is right, and it's what I've been thinking for a while. A lot of the 'evolution' we have had is actually de-evolution. The brawl n' stallers wouldn't have nearly as much success without rounds or stand ups.
If it goes more mainstream by becoming more like boxing or kickboxing, it changes what it was supposed to be. The further it goes the less I like it.
TTT for NO standups!!!!!!
As a fan of MMA who does not train I also love to watch good groundfighting, I would hate it if every fight was dominated by striking, I dont want fighters who are real good grapplers to stand and trade just because they think its what the fans want to see.
Can you imagine if every fight was standup? it would be like a Kickboxing version of toughman. I would probably convert back to Boxing if this happened.
I love watching the old Vale Tudo events with 30 minute rounds. It's ok to have groundfighting :-) And if you want to strike, then learn to get back on your feet. Or sprawl. It's not the grappler's fault that the striker can't keep it standing...
"It's not the grappler's fault that the striker can't keep it standing..."
Holy crap we finally came full circle as this was the original argument that UFC1 wanted to prove correct!
I agree 100% by the way
if you dont like grappling then you dont like MMA as a sport, its as simple as that. Move on and find something else to watch. Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Boxing, there are loads of alternatives for those that only like standup fighting.
For the record, not every fight is going to be 100% exciting. That's just life.
NO STAND UPS.
stand ups suit the striker,all the striker has to do is cling on for dear life then get a stand up,then the grappler doesnt get a chance to work his subs,coz hes getting stood up all the time.i know its m.m.a and people should be a complete striker and grappler combined but alot of people have there base in either striking or grappling.john mcarthy is the worst ever for stand ups.the de-evolution of m.m.a is starting!!!
"some great striker get's taken down very early in the round and he knows that if he holds on for dear life for two minutes that he will granted a free stanup."
I may be off base with this, but shouldn't the grappler be able to dominate the striker and keep the pace going with sub attempts and strikes? I think the UFC stands up the fighters too quickly though. Pride is a little better.
If you want just stand-up action, stick with boxing or K-1. If you want slow methodical grappling, stick with Jiu-jitsu competitions. I think MMA has a good mix. Rings King of Kings had stand ups and some of the most entertaining ground grappling I've seen in MMA.
"its not the strikers fault the grappler cant do anything to finnish the fight once he gets it to the ground."
You nailed it.
At the point of a boring fighter stalling to any point that would make a ref question himself on standing the fight up, it's not the striker's fault that his opponent is unable to finish him using his marquee weapon... therefore....
If the striker can't finish on the feet...
... and the grappler can't finish on the ground...
... restart standing!!!!
What's so fuckin hard to understand here, gentlemen????????
It takes time to work stuff on the ground sometimes.
If the grappler has trouble finishing on the ground, and the striker can't finish him standing, why in the world does it make sense to stand it up?
Doesn't that mean if the striker isn't doing anything but defending takedowns like Yves Edwards did against Franca, then they should put them on the ground? Makes the same amount of sense.
How about if the striker is stalling out on the ground with the grappler in the guard they put him in side mount due to the fact that the striker is stalling? Makes the same amount of sense.
Face it, sometimes a fight is going to get slow, whether on the ground or standing. Nothing you can do about it and still make it fair.
NO STAND UPS WHAT'S SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT?
Wasabi, this is honestly, might be the best post I've ever read on here. Plus, your follow ups were great. Right on the money, bro, and well stated.
-Elias