Ecto Cooler...thanks for your support.
The moral of the story is don't walk around in casino parking lots by yourself.
this story was fabricated by sam pai. Just look at how it is written. What a joke. Go back to TMA old man, you cant fight for shit.
Please everyone remember that this was the same asshole who claimed that he could punch harder then Tyson in his prime. What a tool
LOL at this story being about TMA vs. MMA. Some of the posters here are so fucking brainwashed.
The story is about training methods and mental awareness. If you are conditioned to automatically release a lock when the guy taps out, you likely will. If you keep it a mental decision, you are more likely to make the appropriate choice.
Also, if you never train to blast through an armbar, such as with a dummy or even a pool noodle through a gi, you are unlikely to do so properly.
Sam Pai brings up a very legitimate point, IMO. When training, in order to avoid injuring your opponent, you can get in a mindset of applying the lock slowly, and waiting for the tap. If you never practice any way but that way, that is the way you will do it.
Same concept that is used against TMA training - train as you fight. If you are training primarily for sport, great! Don't worry too much about it, as for the majority of people, fighting in true self defense is never necessary. However, if you think ONLY training with sporting methods is sufficient for self defense, you need to consider adding some components to your training.
"LOL at this story being about TMA vs. MMA."
On average, TMA is more likely to have unrealistic training methods whereas the average MMA athlete would rip the arm off in the cage or on the street.
I don't know about y'all, but in a real fight, with the adrenaline flowing, I wouldn't stop for a tap.
"I remember several years ago there a Highway Patrol Officer was shot. They found him with empty shell casings in his hands, which indicated he didn't let the casings fall to the ground, he caught them like they did at the range. "
Who the fuck catches their casings?
That story just changed my life. I need to train to go for the break and I haven't been. I'm not ready for the street, there are things I don't know and different ways of training I haven't tried. I feel insecure, I'm missing something.
I KNOW! I'll buy what Tim Larkin is selling!
(deep exhale) Now I feel better and in a few weeks, with my new course, I'll be ready for "the street".
Then they'll see, then they'll all stop picking on me......
"I don't know about y'all, but in a real fight, with the adrenaline flowing, I wouldn't stop for a tap."
I agree. Also letting go of a sub is a concious choice for most and not an automatic reaction.
Quite a while ago Frank Mir broke Tim Sylvia's arm in a match and ppl were ragging on him.
In training give the guy time to tap or try his brilliant escape. In competition go for the SNAP, not the TAP. Then in combat it will come naturally. ATTITUDE.
<3. Somewhat proficient deadly martial artist (could also be RBSD, Kenpo, FMA, or any other art that advocates gouging out eyes or stabbing people multiply times in the anus) is hassled by two guys in parking lot and kills them both. It turns out they were just drunk frat boys and the martial artist will be spending alot of time in jail.>
Was he a prophet to know what his muggers' (two of them!) intentions were? That's an argument for excluding women and other weaklings from juries. I hope this guy teaches prison thugs a lesson or two.
<Don't worry too much about it, as for the majority of people, fighting in true self defense is never necessary. >
You're in a pizza joint. Some rabbi walks in, maybe a little overdressed for the weather. You see the bomb belt before anybody else does. YOU have to disable the guy before he blows up the place. EVERYBODY
Quite a while ago Frank Mir broke Tim Sylvia's arm in a match and ppl were ragging on him.
In training give the guy time to tap or try his brilliant escape. In competition go for the SNAP, not the TAP. Then in combat it will come naturally. ATTITUDE.
<3. Somewhat proficient deadly martial artist (could also be RBSD, Kenpo, FMA, or any other art that advocates gouging out eyes or stabbing people multiply times in the anus) is hassled by two guys in parking lot and kills them both. It turns out they were just drunk frat boys and the martial artist will be spending alot of time in jail.>
Was he a prophet to know what his muggers' (two of them!) intentions were? That's an argument for excluding women and other weaklings from juries. I hope this guy teaches prison thugs a lesson or two.
<Don't worry too much about it, as for the majority of people, fighting in true self defense is never necessary. >
You're in a pizza joint. Some rabbi walks in, maybe a little overdressed for the weather. You see the bomb belt before anybody else does. YOU have to disable the guy before he blows up the place. EVERYBODY is in the line of fire. Keep yourself in shape and practice, practice, practice.
Sorry for the preemie post ;)
ttt for SPK
The Baron.
Gary, thanks for starting this discussion. Whether the story is true or not, it is always good to step back and evaluate what habits are being ingrained during training, and what your real response in an elevated adrenal state will be. I actually wasn't trying to correct you earlier in the thread, just indicate that I began to doubt the veracity of the story after I read the part about the "thug" tapping out...and the "well-known jujutsu competitor" respecting the tap! I mean, I see guys at every tournament who get so worked up that they don't respect the tap and continue to apply pressure on a joint lock or choke after the person has submitted. Which is weak sauce, BTW, but another issue. In any case, I really can't believe that a highly skilled combat athlete in a high state of adrenaline, involved in a fight for his life vs. a knife is going to just LET GO when his attacker wants to give up all the sudden. I think it would be pretty rare that a rule you adhere to during a competitive sport would somehow override your basic instincts for survival.
It makes a great story for one of those cheesy marketing ads in Black Belt magazine, though.
I went on to www.blackbeltmag.com to see if I could dig up one of the aforementioned ads; I didn't find them, but I did find some interesting pics in an article on Tim Larkin. He's performing several standing wrist and armlocks, some rather exotic. All in good fun, I've added a few quotes to go along with the pics:
"Ok guys, so you're being mugged in a Las Vegas parking lot against two knife weilding attackers. After you've double legged the first guy and knocked him out, I recommend this combination wrist/armlock to control him and make him drop his knife. Ok, I forgot my training knife today, but just pretend he has a knife in his hand. A little 'fantasy' with our 'reality' training, ok? Heh heh..."
"Now, just because I'm this good and I want to really embarrass the guy, I'm going to throw my leg over like this..."
"Now of course, I never ACTUALLY want to go to the ground because of the everpresent rocks, glass, needles, and molten lava, but just this once..."
Back to a fairly standard one:
Judo knee strike!
"Now if I let you go, you're not gonna grab that knife right there and stab me in the torso repeatedly, are you? I have enough digestive problems as it is, let me tell you. Alright, you seem like a pretty ok guy, I guess I can trust you...
This guy needs a few breakfalling lessons along with his eye gouges. Or perhaps the pressure point/throat attack that the thrower is employing actually forces him to extend and lock out his left arm? Clever...
Plus, no street shoes on the mat! These guys are gonna give us all ringworm for sure. :(
Diesel,
Why go to the trouble of cutting and pasting what I wrote if you are still going to misquote me. I think you are reading what you want to, not what I wrote.
"<3. Somewhat proficient deadly martial artist (could also be RBSD, Kenpo, FMA, or any other art that advocates gouging out eyes or stabbing people multiply times in the anus) is hassled by two guys in parking lot and kills them both. It turns out they were just drunk frat boys and the martial artist will be spending alot of time in jail.>"
To which you replied:
"Was he a prophet to know what his muggers' (two of them!) intentions were? That's an argument for excluding women and other weaklings from juries. I hope this guy teaches prison thugs a lesson or two."
In any case, I think I should have provided more details (since my post was quite sarcastic). What I meant (and should be clear from the text you quoted) was that he was not being mugged at all, just messed with (upsetting, but with no threat of physical violence) by some tipsy youngsters. He could have walked/run away, but chose to whip out one of his multiple knives (don't laugh until you do a search of all the FMA and RBSD sites out there) and "defend" himself.
You are right, however, to ask if he was a "prophet"--that's exactly what the DA will ask him when he insists that he just knew these unarmed young men were going to hurt him.
As for the teaching prison thugs a lesson thing, that is all yours. I won't even touch it.
John
like the article but in the street theres no tappin out.... Just snap!!!! In a Comp thats one thing but in the street its completly different... He should of broke the guy's arm and kept going till the guy passed out.... Theres no ref here.... just fighting for survival which iz completly different than sport which MIGHT be why he got stbbed ...he had a sport mentality and the other guy had a street mentality
This is a strange thread.
Shaolinz,
Probably a fake story.
Big reason he lived--even in this paranoid fantasy--is, ironically, because of the way he trained. Otherwise probably dead from the get go.
John
"2. Only reason he lived--even in this paranoid fantasy--is, ironically, because he was an athlete. Otherwise dead from the get go."
I think full resistance (fictional and non-fictional) increases survival under such circumstances.
There have been recent stories of non-athletic, 70 year-old men who actually beat their younger, armed assailants.
I think athleticism plays a role only in-so far as it contributes to the psychology of committed, full-resistance.
And, as I've mentioned, committed, full-resistance is not the sole territory of trained athletes. I don't think being a non-athlete = dead from the get-go.
4Ranges,
I stand corrected. I wrote that quickly (and will probably edit just a word or two). But I think, given the context, it will be clear that I meant his combination of both training method(s) and mindset got him through the fictional day. I hope no one thinks I meant you have to be a jock/pro fighter to do this stuff.
And you are right about the weirdness.
John
tapping is just a safety measure, just like pulling your punches in striking. just because you're pulling your punches when you train doesn't mean you're going to develop this awful habit of not really hitting a knife-weilding baddie.
guys who "train for combat" should be using sport training methods, or sending someone to the hospital after each practice.
John:
"I wrote that quickly"
I figured as much. No problemo. :)
On that note, I deeply believe that one of the best ways (if not THE best way) to develop the psychology of resistance is through athletic development.