have you ever seen a good wrestler have his opponent against the fence or ropes, yet had a terrible time getting the takedown?
paint this picture in your mind...
the wrestler is attacking the hips for a takedown attempt. the opponent is resting his hips against the fence, has his legs spread wide, and is dropping the weight of his torso directly down onto the wrestler's body. it's pretty friggin dificult to finish the takedown from this position, but a slight change in position makes a TON of difference.
as wrestlers, we are always taught to attack/drive through the hips. unfortunately, this doesn't work ver well against the cage or ropes (yes, people like Matt Hughes have taken opponents down from this position, but I don't have the pound for pound strength that they have).
next time you're stuck there, slide your shoulder from his hips up to the base of his sternum and drive him hard against the cage or ropes. this unweights his feet and it becomes very easy to pull his legs out from under him grab behind the knees).
try this next time you're up against the fence or ropes or wall and you won't believe how much easier it is.
no shame
Hmmm, interesting indeed!
I coach a wrestling club, not an MMA club per se. But one thing I do to help make the kids a little more, er... "well rounded" should the need arise, is to have them keep going against the wall.
Often, guys in a wrestling practice will get against the wall in the wrestling room and they stop. They break the action and move away from the wall to start again. I suppose this makes sense, because you won't run into a wall in a wrestling match. But I've told them that if they're against the wall, just keep going, because the wrestling mat isn't the only place where wrestling skills are useful.
Hopefully, that can be helpful in the situation you described above. Again, it's not an MMA club, but I like to point out to these guys (mostly high school kids) that wrestling is a valid martial art and it doesn't hurt to practice in situations that would be "abnormal" for a wrestling match, but not in other situations. Also, this makes things more interesting for them, and makes a lot of the guys more "into it" when the realize that wrestling is more than "just" another sport. Keep in mind that MMA is still not very mainstream, so a lot of people still think of Tae Kwon Do as "the" martial art. The idea that wrestling is an effective martial art is still a novel concept to most people.
OK, I'm done with taking your thread on a tangeant. Sorry :/
Good stuff, noshame! This is going to have to be included in the next practice. Thanks man!
glad you like it, Chip. remember though, you can get too high into his chest and los position. make sure to keep your shoulder at the base of his sternum/rib cage. if you get too high, you lose all leverage.
no shame
That's what I figured no shame. I went into the wrestling room last night and played around with it with another coach. We drilled it against the wall, did some live situations from there, etc... I didn't want to present it to any of the guys without trying it out first.
We definitely discovered that you need to keep constant pressure on him and not go too high. By constant pressure I mean: we learned you need to "slide" up from shoulder in the hip to shoulder in the sternum - not disengage your shoulder from hip, then move to re-engage shoulder to sternum, which releases pressure and gives him wiggle room.
Definitely effective!
On the 1st Mario Sperry Vale Tudo tape set, he shows a takedown against a wall where you wrap your same side leg around the outside of theirs and twist them 180 degrees using your underhooks, ending in mount or half mount. I've tried it, and it seems effective... Anyone else tried this?
We set a crash mat up against the wall. Drive the guy into there with a double leg shoot, then practise takedowns.
pull the leg/s out from underneath sine you can't drive through the guy. or go single and move him out of the fence.
chip, you're absolutely right. guess i shoulda mentioned that.
no shame
If he has his weight on you like you are describing, with your shoulder in his hip, it would be very simple to drop your hips under you and stand up with him on your shoulder. You would have to do it quickly to keep from being pushed to your back, but it is doable.
"...drop your hips under you and stand up with him on your shoulder." - That sounds like it would work well, saint39, but jeez, that seems like an awful lot of work! LOL
saint,
believe it or not, it's just not that easy. by spreading his legs apart, he is lowering his hips and then droping his weight on you. it's just tough to get under the guy and still have both power AND balance.
try this method and i guarantee that you will find it easier/more effective.
and yeah, sounds like an awful lot of work!!
no shame
ttt
Just read this thread again...
If you have the guy up against the fence/wall/ropes, keep pressure on him, making him stand upright. Keep your head lower than him, just like good pummeling techniques. Pop him up, then squat down quick(not a knee drop, just a quick squat). Plant your face directly into his chest, hook behind each knee with the hand on that side, and rip his legs out from under him just like BruceL said. Kerr has used this technique for great results when he used to fight. It is basically a Jap Double/Standing Double with your opponents back against the wall/etc.