circa305 -The ref never saw the tap and most people didn't either.fishyfish - maybe I should make a prop bet on Hendricks vs GSP : Hendricks by SUB, as that pays much more (+1200 instead of +200).
after all, GSP's only loss to strikes came when he tapped out against Serra.
then again, that was ruled a TKO.
LOL
I dont bet but if I did I would try to just bet on the winner and hope it doesnt go to a decision.
Tad Ghostal -So I guess Rampage tko'd WandyJamesPowell -Tad Ghostal -Did you really say there are no KO in mma?JamesPowell -boxy - Disagree.^
Tap out or verbal submission to strikes = submission
KO = removed from consciousness
TKO = senses rattled and not intelligently defending
There aren't any KOs in MMA, only TKOs. A KO is from boxing when you can't beat the 10 count.
Yes I did. The ref doesn't measure your consciousness, so if they step in it's a TKO (officially). On UFC.com they are all listed as TKO/KO. In boxing, if you are fully unconscious it's actually more likely to be a TKO as the ref won't bother counting to 10. Also, if a guy can't get up from a body shot, it's a KO, despite them being fully conscious.
I assume the confusion comes from the fact that Bruce Buffer like to say "KNOCK OUT".
I made a guy tap to strikes once, it was recorded as a TKO. I want it to read Sub to strikes. I think I shows a better truth than just a TKO where the ref saved him
I agree with OP, although detractors have a valid point.
Pura Vida -D241 -Eddy Rolon -The winner forced the loser to submit. Winning by submission by strikes feels different than locking an armbar but both are examples of the loser acknowleding defeat; ading the detail of type of submission is enough information.
Again, you are acknowledging how the loser lost, not by how the winner won.
Fighter knocks opponent out, he WON by ko.
Fighter hits opponent and referee stops it, he WON via tko by strikes
Fighter chokes his opponent, opponent taps, he WON by submission
Fighter chokes his opponent, opponent does not tap(but goes to sleep), he STILL WON by submission
Fighter hits opponent and opponent taps, he did NOT WIN by submission, he WON by strikes, the LOSER LOST by submission.
EVERY fight outcome is determined by HOW THE WINNER WON, with the ONLY exception being HOW THE LOSER LOST when the loser taps via strikes.
Nobody can refute these facts.
You didn't post any facts, you just chose some innacurate descriptions, to try to make your pretend story true.
I hate it when someone states an opinion as a fact.
However, I am not guilty of this.
If a fighter knocks his opponent out cold, and the referee intervines, it is ruled a ko.
Do you consider that FACT, or OPINION? It's not opinion, it's a fact.
If a fighter is punching his opponent, his opponent isn't knocked out, and isn't intelligently defending himself, the referee stops the fight, and it is ruled a technical knock out(TKO). It's not an opinion, it is FACT.
If a fighter chokes someone unconscious, the ref stops the fight. The fight is ruled a submission victory, is that fact, or is that opinion? It's a fact.
If a fighter chokes someone and that person taps, the ref stops the fight. The fight is ruled a submission victory. Is that fact, or opinion? It's a fact
boxy - Disagree. |
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ausgepicht - |
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OCMikey -I gotta agree, a tko suggests to me the stoppage was involuntary. Nothing involuntary about tapping outGSP24 - Nope. It's a submission.Yup
GSP24 - Nope. It's a submission.Can't believe there's 4 pages discussing such a black and white issue.
vandelay -OCMikey -I gotta agree, a tko suggests to me the stoppage was involuntary. Nothing involuntary about tapping outGSP24 - Nope. It's a submission.Yup
Again, you are suggesting fight outcomes be decided how the loser lost, not how the winner won.
There are 5 finishing outcomes for a fight-
1.get knocked clean out-Winner won by knockout
2.getting hit without defending yourself intelligently, but still conscoius-Winner won by tko
3.losing consciousness or letting a limb get broken without tapping-winner won by submission
4.getting choked or submitted, and you tap before you snap or nap-winner by submission
But #5 getting hit without defendingyourself intelligently and you tap-loser lost by submitting.
It's easier to change the 1 example of how the loser lost, than to change the 4 examples of how the winner won.
I can't believe nobody else is agreeing with this.
FedorEmilioEstevez -GSP24 - Nope. It's a submission.Can't believe there's 4 pages discussing such a black and white issue.
Submitting to strikes is not being technically knocked out, it's giving up (submitting).
Fight outcomes are announced how the winner won, not how the loser lost.
The ONLY exception is when a fighter loses via strikes and taps out. For some reason, Then, and ONLY THEN, is the fight outcome announced how the loser lost.
Tell me how that makes sense.
D241 -Pura Vida -D241 -Eddy Rolon -The winner forced the loser to submit. Winning by submission by strikes feels different than locking an armbar but both are examples of the loser acknowleding defeat; ading the detail of type of submission is enough information.
Again, you are acknowledging how the loser lost, not by how the winner won.
Fighter knocks opponent out, he WON by ko.
Fighter hits opponent and referee stops it, he WON via tko by strikes
Fighter chokes his opponent, opponent taps, he WON by submission
Fighter chokes his opponent, opponent does not tap(but goes to sleep), he STILL WON by submission
Fighter hits opponent and opponent taps, he did NOT WIN by submission, he WON by strikes, the LOSER LOST by submission.
EVERY fight outcome is determined by HOW THE WINNER WON, with the ONLY exception being HOW THE LOSER LOST when the loser taps via strikes.
Nobody can refute these facts.
You didn't post any facts, you just chose some innacurate descriptions, to try to make your pretend story true.I hate it when someone states an opinion as a fact.
However, I am not guilty of this.
If a fighter knocks his opponent out cold, and the referee intervines, it is ruled a ko.
Do you consider that FACT, or OPINION? It's not opinion, it's a fact.
If a fighter is punching his opponent, his opponent isn't knocked out, and isn't intelligently defending himself, the referee stops the fight, and it is ruled a technical knock out(TKO). It's not an opinion, it is FACT.
If a fighter chokes someone unconscious, the ref stops the fight. The fight is ruled a submission victory, is that fact, or is that opinion? It's a fact.
If a fighter chokes someone and that person taps, the ref stops the fight. The fight is ruled a submission victory. Is that fact, or opinion? It's a fact
You are, these two are the same;
"Fighter chokes his opponent, opponent taps, he WON by submission
Fighter hits opponent and opponent taps, he did NOT WIN by submission, he WON by strikes, the LOSER LOST by submission."
You just described them differently, to try to make your pretend point. In both of those cases, one fighter quit, he made a decision to end the fight, by submitting. What the winning fighter happenned to be doing, when the loser chose to submit is irrelevant, in both cases the fighter won by submission. You're conflating "win by submission" with "win by submission hold."
"Fighter chokes his opponent, opponent does not tap(but goes to sleep), he STILL WON by submission"
That shouldn't be a win by submission.
D241 -You are wrong. Point number 3 the outcome is TECHNICAL SUBMISSION, the person didn't submit so it's not a legit submission, hence technical sub. Point number 5 the winner still won by submission because the opponent submitted.vandelay -OCMikey -I gotta agree, a tko suggests to me the stoppage was involuntary. Nothing involuntary about tapping outGSP24 - Nope. It's a submission.Yup
Again, you are suggesting fight outcomes be decided how the loser lost, not how the winner won.
There are 5 finishing outcomes for a fight-
1.get knocked clean out-Winner won by knockout
2.getting hit without defending yourself intelligently, but still conscoius-Winner won by tko
3.losing consciousness or letting a limb get broken without tapping-winner won by submission
4.getting choked or submitted, and you tap before you snap or nap-winner by submission
But #5 getting hit without defendingyourself intelligently and you tap-loser lost by submitting.
It's easier to change the 1 example of how the loser lost, than to change the 4 examples of how the winner won.
I can't believe nobody else is agreeing with this.
Pura Vida - |
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Gojira78 -D241 -vandelay -OCMikey -GSP24 - Nope. It's a submission.Yup <img alt="Phone Post 3.0" border="0" src="/images/phone/apple.png" style="vertical-align:middle;" /></blockquote> I gotta agree, a tko suggests to me the stoppage was involuntary. Nothing involuntary about tapping out <img alt="Phone Post" border="0" src="/images/phone/droid.png" style="vertical-align:middle;" /></blockquote> <br /> <p> Again, you are suggesting fight outcomes be decided how the loser lost, not how the winner won.</p> <p> </p> <p> There are 5 finishing outcomes for a fight-</p> <p> 1.get knocked clean out-Winner won by knockout</p> <p> 2.getting hit without defending yourself intelligently, but still conscoius-Winner won by tko</p> <p> 3.losing consciousness or letting a limb get broken without tapping-winner won by submission</p> <p> 4.getting choked or submitted, and you tap before you snap or nap-winner by submission</p> <p> But #5 getting hit without defendingyourself intelligently and you tap-loser lost by submitting.</p> <p> </p> <p> It's easier to change the 1 example of how the loser lost, than to change the 4 examples of how the winner won.</p> <p> </p> <p> I can't believe nobody else is agreeing with this.</p> </blockquote> You are wrong. Point number 3 the outcome is TECHNICAL SUBMISSION, the person didn't submit so it's not a legit submission, hence technical sub. Point number 5 the winner still won by submission because the opponent submitted. <img alt="Phone Post 3.0" border="0" src="/images/phone/apple.png" style="vertical-align:middle;" /></blockquote>
Lol
#3 was an example of how they announce how the winner won. I said that in this scenario, they go by how the winner won, not by how the loser lost. The winner, won via submission. You are arguing semantics. What's the 2nd word in technical submission?
And no, you are wrong. #5-
The exception is they did NOT go by how the winner won. The winner was not applying a submission. He was applying strikes. He won via strikes when his opponent submitted to the strikes. He didn't submit him with submitting him, his punches/strikes is how he won.
If it's not incorrect, than riddle me this.
Why is it, when a fighter uses a submission such as a choke hold, regardless of how the fighter quit, he is announced the winner by submission,(doesn't matter if there is a tap or no tap)
yet....
when a fighter is not applying a submission, but rather raining down punches, he is announced the winner by tko, but an exception IS made if the losing fighter quits a certain way(via tap)?
Why do they care how an opponent loses in just that ONE instance? When he taps to a choke or armbar, the winner won by submission. If he gets his arm broke like Renzo/Sakuraba, the winner won by submission even though his opponent didn't tap. When Jones submitted Lyoto with the choke, Lyoto didn't tap, yet Jones still won via submission.
When Jon Jones armbarred Vitor Belfort, Vitor tapped, but Jon Jones still won via submission.
Even if you take into consideration submitting involuntarily, it still isn't consistent.
Meaning if a fighter goes unconscious from a knockout blow or from being choked, he may not consciously "tap", but his body is submitting. Submitting to the knock out blow, submitting to the lack of oxygen to the brain.
The gray area is submission vs submit.
So when you go by the other methods of victory, there are 5 choices, 4 of them go by how the winner won, 1 of them goes by how the loser lost. That is where the inconsistancy lies.
And personally, instead of changing the other 4, and leaving (a guy punching someone and he quits) as it is, change 1. Instead of losing via submission due to strikes, lose via tko.
Had the referee intervined A HALF SECOND before the tap, it'd be considered a tko anyways.
In the context of mma, to me, submitted means lost via a submission. If you lose to strikes and tap, just say you lost via tko.
D241 -How the fighter lost is the same as how the fighter won no? Unless I'm not understanding you correctly.FedorEmilioEstevez -GSP24 - Nope. It's a submission.Can't believe there's 4 pages discussing such a black and white issue.
Submitting to strikes is not being technically knocked out, it's giving up (submitting).
Fight outcomes are announced how the winner won, not how the loser lost.
The ONLY exception is when a fighter loses via strikes and taps out. For some reason, Then, and ONLY THEN, is the fight outcome announced how the loser lost.
Tell me how that makes sense.
Wally Saves -ausgepicht -
sub·mis·sion
s?b?miSH?n/
noun
1.
the action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.
People are going to gloss over this.
Of course. This site isn't known for their reading comprehension or grasp of the English language. They think "submission" means joint lock or choke. Laughable.
FedorEmilioEstevez - How the fighter lost is the same as how the fighter won no? Unless I'm not understanding you correctly. |
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D241 -
'Submission via guillotine choke' is how the fighter won but also how the other fighter lost etc etc.<div> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
It's the same with every finishing outcome Except when someone taps to strikes.
For instance,
If a fighter submits his opponent via guillotine choke, and the opponent taps, the fighter won by submission
If a fighter submits his opponent via guillotine choke, and the opponent naps, the fighter won by submission
If a fighter hits his opponent and the referee stops the fight, the fighter won via tko
If a fighter hits his opponent and the opponent taps, the fighter won via submission.
So the fighter wins by submission due to strikes