KO = Winning fighter stops the fight (Losing fighter unable to continue)
TKO = Referee stops the fight (Referee deems the fight over due to not intelligently defending themselves ie. turtling or letting your limbs be broken)
Sub = Losing fighter stops the fight (Losing fighter decides to end the contest by submitting defeat)
Should be a KO IMO just because in terms of betting and shit. You get fucked because a guy gave up.
A tko is the exact same outcome of a guy not putting up any more resistance 
fishyfish - I had decent-sized wagers tonight on Thatch by TKO and Cavalcante by TKO, and they were graded as losses. I hope it's a grading mistake, or else that's bogus.
thats fucking bullshit.
They should be listed as TKO-Submission.
The fact that you're tapping means you submitted. It doesn't really matter what you submitted to - whether it was getting punched in the noggin or kimura'd to nogdom.
It kind of does matter what you submitted to, as that's the whole point of listing the details of the outcome.
ausgepicht -Thread should've ended right here
sub·mis·sion
s?b?miSH?n/
noun
1.
the action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.
Boxing has been around for hundreds of years, its modern Marquis of Queensbury rules were first adopted in 1867. Even then they adopted a difference between the terms TKO and KO. “In Boxing, should the referee count to ten, then the knocked-down boxer is ruled “knocked out” (whether he or she is unconscious or not) and the other boxer is ruled the winner by knockout (KO). A “technical knockout” (TKO) is possible as well, and is ruled by the referee, fight doctor, or a fighter’s corner if a fighter is unable to safely continue to fight, based upon injuries or being judged unable to effectively defend themselves.”
In MMA however, many things can happen that sometimes make it hard to determine the difference between a TKO and a KO. Since New Jersey was one of the first states to come up with MMA rules, we will use them for the comparison. The New Jersey Athletic commission defines a KO as, “Knockout by failure to rise from the canvas.” They go on to say that a technical knockout is determined by, “Referee stops bout, Ringside physician stops bout or when an injury as a result of a legal maneuver is severe enough to terminate a bout.”
Others, like the late PRIDE organization, chose not to include the KO ruling in their rules. PRIDE had only the term “technical knock out” defined as, “If the referee sees that one fighter is completely dominant, to the point of endangering his opponent, the referee will stop the match. In the event that a fighter is injured (via fair methods) and cannot continue the match, his opponent will be declared the winner. The ring doctor will be the one to determine whether the fighter can continue or not. In the event that an injury was caused by illegal methods, the perpetrator will be disqualified. A fighter’s corner throws in the towel.”
Without the 10 second count, like referees in boxing have, MMA referees must quickly decide whether a fighter is defending himself or that he is unconscious. Not only that, but the referee’s ruling will dictate when a fighter can fight again. Depending on weither it is a KO or TKO can as Steve Mazzagatti states, “makes a differnce as to how long the commission will not let a fighter fight.” Maybe to a seasoned referee it isn’t as complicated as it sounds, but in a few fights I have watched and wondered, just what made that a KO and not a TKO?
Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout
http://www.pridefc.com/pride2005/whats_rules.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_martial_arts
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html
ausgepicht -Exactly. He submitted. Do you guys understand the definition? It doesn't matter what happened if he willfully taps he is submitting. End of story.
sub·mis·sion
s?b?miSH?n/
noun
1.
the action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.
I already made an insightful thread on this very topic.
The answer was found!
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=2033236
D241 - Submission due to strikes. |
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D241 - If a fighter is getting punched while on the bottom for 10 seconds, and then taps, they call it a submission. |
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D241 -Haulport - I disagree my fren. |
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^^When I made this exact same thread, the people who at first disagreed with me, were NOT able to counter that^^
D241 - Wrong. A submission does not mean a person surrendered. Submitted does. |
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Then you and I disagree with what submission is.
To me, submitting means you acknowledge to your opponent that you are beat.
Submission, is a technique used to finish your opponent in a lock.
Brings us back to square 1.
You are going by how the loser lost, instead of how the winner won.
Every other example a fight outcome is determined, it is announced by how the winner "won". The ONLY exception to this, is when the winner wins by making his opponent tap to strikes.
If the winner knocks out his opponent, he is "the winner by Knockout"....
If the winner rains down punches and the referee stops it, he is "the winner by tko"
If the winner chokes out an opponent, and the opponent taps, he is "the winner by submission"
If the winner chokes out an opponent and the opponent does not tap, he is still, "The winner by submission".
The ONLY different one, is
If the winner rains down punches and the fighter taps before the referee stops it, he is "the winner by how his opponent lost" . IE, "The winner by submission". He didn't "win" by "submission", the loser "lost" by "submission" So change this one thing, or change all fight outcomes as to how the loser lost so we have some consistency.
Debate me on this.
I rolled my sleeves up, handed my sunglasses to Card, my dukes are up....
BRING IT
The winner forced the loser to submit. Winning by submission by strikes feels different than locking an armbar but both are examples of the loser acknowleding defeat; ading the detail of type of submission is enough information.
Eddy Rolon -The winner forced the loser to submit. Winning by submission by strikes feels different than locking an armbar but both are examples of the loser acknowleding defeat; ading the detail of type of submission is enough information.
Again, you are acknowledging how the loser lost, not by how the winner won.
Fighter knocks opponent out, he WON by ko.
Fighter hits opponent and referee stops it, he WON via tko by strikes
Fighter chokes his opponent, opponent taps, he WON by submission
Fighter chokes his opponent, opponent does not tap(but goes to sleep), he STILL WON by submission
Fighter hits opponent and opponent taps, he did NOT WIN by submission, he WON by strikes, the LOSER LOST by submission.
EVERY fight outcome is determined by HOW THE WINNER WON, with the ONLY exception being HOW THE LOSER LOST when the loser taps via strikes.
Nobody can refute these facts.
Doesn't the ref have to make the call right there and then as to how it will be ruled? So if they see the tap and that's why they stop the fight it's a submission, but if they don't see the tap and stop the fight it's a TKO.
However, this raises the question of why it's not a TKO if you are choked unconscious?
D241 -Eddy Rolon -The winner forced the loser to submit. Winning by submission by strikes feels different than locking an armbar but both are examples of the loser acknowleding defeat; ading the detail of type of submission is enough information.
Again, you are acknowledging how the loser lost, not by how the winner won.
Fighter knocks opponent out, he WON by ko.
Fighter hits opponent and referee stops it, he WON via tko by strikes
Fighter chokes his opponent, opponent taps, he WON by submission
Fighter chokes his opponent, opponent does not tap(but goes to sleep), he STILL WON by submission
Fighter hits opponent and opponent taps, he did NOT WIN by submission, he WON by strikes, the LOSER LOST by submission.
EVERY fight outcome is determined by HOW THE WINNER WON, with the ONLY exception being HOW THE LOSER LOST when the loser taps via strikes.
Nobody can refute these facts.
You didn't post any facts, you just chose some innacurate descriptions, to try to make your pretend story true.
Wally Saves -Yeah, Aus pretty much ended the thread with that, IMOausgepicht -
sub·mis·sion
s?b?miSH?n/
noun
1.
the action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.
People are going to gloss over this.
I think op lost a bet. Probably betted on a tko win haha