Hope he has luck finding another gym to roll at...lol
Post the email response!
Fuck him Ray, one bad apple will spoil the whole bunch.
it's amazing this insecure, giant 280 lb neck cranking douche made it to brown belt.
though not an absolute, bjj is pretty good at filtering a-holes the higher up you go. guess guys slip through from time to time.
Kinda funny that Marcello Garcia has an entire dvd devoted to the crucifix lol
I think you guys are discussing two different moves though. Rickson does a crank FROM the crucifix.
This guy is probably doing the CRUCIFIX CRANK. Its two different techniques and that one is highly illegal. Bas Rutten and alot of the sub wrestling guys love demoing it but its not so easy to apply with resistance unless...there is a big weight difference.
The crucifix crank will absolutely break a neck.
Ray with regards to what i would suggest as a school:
1. People go there because of you. You dont need this douche. If he doesnt want to listen or learn from you, tell him to go elsewhere. I have been to thailand...there is no other places like yours. He is either going to listen or he's gonna be hitting thai pads at a tourist camp hearing souwayyyyy souwaaaaaay while he kicks the pads wrong :)
2. Take this opportunity to educate your guys on the safe subs and the ones that need to be avoided. Also take the opportunity to explain to your guys that we are all FRIENDS and helping eachother improve. There is NO reason to use the crucifix crank in training other than to be a douche. It is unlikely that someone will tap to it in a real fight because there is no pain till the snap. Thus it's pointless.
3. What has been said above is gold, some of the guys obviously talking from real experience.
Ray,
Congratulations. You did a tough thing, but you did the right thing. Think of the relief that you and your students are now going to feel with him gone.
The first time is the hardest :)
Best,
~Chris
LEMon - I think you guys are discussing two different moves though. Rickson does a crank FROM the crucifix.
This guy is probably doing the CRUCIFIX CRANK. Its two different techniques and that one is highly illegal.
Both employ a crank to an extent, Rickson's is far more of a crank while Garcia's tends to be more of a choke. I pull a crucifix while someone is defending (posturing) from a guillotine attempt in my guard. I also pull it from side mount and if they are turtled facing me. I attempt to crucifix crank and choke anyone that rolls in the school I train at. It's a legit submission and VERY LEGAL in No-Gi tournaments.
Sure the size difference is a bitch but instead of teaching people what submissions to NOT do how about teaching them how to stay out of certain submissions.
Ray Elbe - Today I tried to approach him about the neck cranks (I've had several students ask not to be paired with him for rolling). I explained to him that he is a brown belt with a variety of tools. The neck crank was illegal in BJJ and I'd appreciate him not using it in my class. He responded with "We aren't wearing the Gi...you have to learn to defend the move". An answer I thought was pretty disrespectful...especially since it isn't his gym.
Honestly I like his answer, whether it is disrespectful or not and I wish he lived close to Memphis to come train with me.
if it's your class, he either follows your rules, no exceptions, or is not welcome back, what is so hard about that? i have guys that think the same way as him, i tell them my specific rules and etiquette, and they follow it if they want to train.
"You are already describing him as an uncooperative, unhelpful, selfish tool. Why is he in YOUR gym?"
Exactly. Character over anything else. Good sparring partners who lack character become a big headache in the long run...
I find in any academy, people who lack character generally become a headache, whether they are brown or white belt. I do find they tend to be guys with experience in other gyms and maybe some pro experience.
i posted before reading the thread. congrats on handling it.
post the email he sent you :)
"Honestly I like his answer, whether it is disrespectful or not and I wish he lived close to Memphis to come train with me.
"
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so sorry u had to go thru that ray man andit sucks...i rmr when i first started when i was 300lbs i was somewhat physical but there was no need to try n break ppl in half. i was all about learing the game.
anyway like leglock fan mentioned (even tho its too late), it wouldve been nice if he was here in NY so me ( 6.7" 265 now and my buddy who is 6 .10" 288) could show him some BIG man rolling..
we wouldve glad obliged to offering him the same treatment in return and adjust his attitude.
Easy answer: Kick him out. Tell him he's too rough and he's going to permanetely injure someone. Fuck his $100 a month, if he breaks someones neck or arm you'll have much bigger problems.
He sounds like a cancer on your school. Get rid of him
hey lemon, what about that girl at your gym you fell in love with, she was a real character.
supersaiyan - anyway like leglock fan mentioned (even tho its too late), it wouldve been nice if he was here in NY so me ( 6.7" 265 now and my buddy who is 6 .10" 288) could show him some BIG man rolling..
we wouldve glad obliged to offering him the same treatment in return and adjust his attitude.
I just meant it would be cool to train with a brown belt that big, I'm 5'9" 205lbs so he would probably tap me a good bit but it would be a fun learning experience
I still think it sad that you had to WRITE him a letter and not let the fucker know face to face, not to fight, but to show you are serious.
Great job Ray!
Ray Elbe - His favorite move is a crucifix neck crank. (which to the best of my knowledge is illegal in BJJ competition) Big Black is constantly pulling this move off on the smaller/less experienced guys. While the neck crank is under control...the pressure a 280lbs man puts on someones neck is pretty instant.
I've had several other students recognize his technique...and now they are attempting it during open rolling (with no control).
I know it has been been suggested but I didn't see where neck cranks were banned by your school. If they are not, you should post illegal moves in common places at your gym and communicate what moves are illegal and the consequences for using them. My gym will not allow neck cracks, heel hooks, spinning ankle lock, and slamming. When someone does one of these moves once, they are kicked out of class and it is explained why.
On the issue of him showing up late, this should be a violation of the rules. I personally don't care if someone shows up late unless I am teaching the class. It is disrespectful to the teacher and the students but the guy probably has week cardio which is sometimes the best submission if your cardio is strong.
LittleMick - Did you do something to protect your students other than piss and moan on a message board?
If I were one of your students, I'd be pissed. A 280 pound brown belt neck cranks people and you're okay with that? WTF, man.
If you're not okay with that, why haven't you maned up and done something about it?
damm mick,your sayn what everyone else is sayn.but your statment just seems clearer to me.
want do you want ray?