This is why the referee is so important and known as "the third man in the match". Referees have the important part of judging whether the bottom man/guard player is being active or whether is has any control or not.
Also, keep in mind, slams will be allowed... ;^)
If a guy jumps into guard, then he has pinned himself.If his shoulders are on the mat for three seconds and the opp is touching him..... then yes he's pinned.
So, Jake, the element of control IS a factor in determining a pin, not just position? You see, I do not mind making this exception for the BJJ crowd at all, just as long as it is not the passive hold and pray type of stalling that a lot of low level players use. But if you're talking about a bottom player like Eddie Bravo, hell yeah. Besides, that way we can tease Eddie by calling him "Bottom Game Catch Wrestler", cause it is what he is in my book anyway. (he's probably gonna kick my ass for this)
If you are in your opponent's closed or open guard (not butterfly), have your hands on your opponent's front delts, are tripoded up, and his shoulder blades are on the mat for 3 seconds, then he is pinned. Plain and simple.
Again, a 3 second pin is only ONE second more than what is required in high school wrestling. If you can pull off a sweep from closed or open guard (NOT butterfly guard) on your opponent under high school wrestling rules, then I'll believe that you can do it in catch too. That one second does not make that much of a difference. I think that you guys need to look at a stop watch and really examine how long 3 seconds is.
One possible way that somebody could get a sweep from open or closed guard would be if he IMMEDIATELY began the technique while his opponent was taking him down, but before hit the mat, so that he could use his opponent's momento against him, and even so, it would be an incredibly high risk, low percentage move, given the presence of the 3 second pin. Unless you guys consider any time that any portion of your back is facing the mat as "being in guard", I cannot see any other way of someone pulling off a sweep from open or closed guard (NOT butterfly guard) other than the one that I have mentioned above.
I can't wait for Catch rules competitions to take place again so that this issue can be settled.
I suppose this will just have to be settled at the tourney.
Right.
I wouldn't and didn't suggest doing it. It was an act of last resort. It worked because of who was doing it IMO and because the opponent had little or no knowledge about what he was dealing with. This day and time it'll take a exceptional guard player to pull it off. Even then he will probably be stacked and pinned.
Yes, I know it seems I've come down on both sides here. I feel it's a bad idea...I did then too, but it did work in that one case.