so basically what you're saying is a fighter w/ 1 top 10 win, a non-top 10 blowout loss, a 2-1 record over the last 2 years is more deserving of being no1 than:
a fighter that's undefeated over the last 2 years w/ 2 top 10 wins and is champ over a more competitive division?
ok. i don't agree,but if you feel that way fine. we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
But youre conveniently failing to mention that fighter A in your example has literally 3 times the amount of wins, has fought consistently against as good if not BETTER comp and his "top ten" win is actually a stoppage against the #1 of not only the moment but of all time.
Contrasted against:
Fighter B who not only has sat out the past YEAR when he "earned" #1 ranking but also dropped his first fight outside your conveniently timed two year window. And his two top tens were over fighters who had not only already been FINISHED MULTIPLE TIMES but the champ had been finished 2 out of his last 4 at that very weight class.
Somehow thats all water under the bridge and Werdum's sole loss by tko to JDS is a damning reminder of his mediocrity.
NOBODY that knows MMA would even ENTERTAIN the idea that Randy(5th tko loss ALONE of his career) and Mir(4tko loss of his career) are better wins than Bigfoot Silva and Fedor(sole loss of his entire 10+ year career including 7 years as the top undefeated champion)
Few would even try to argue that Couture + Mir are greater wins than Fedor alone.
Yet somehow, magically for 4-1 Lesnar, out for a year, they were and he became the new #1 over Werdum. This despite Werdum actually beating the #1. And Lesnar still being 1-1 with Mir.
Really examine this and think for yourselves.
"we're gonna have to agree to disagree. "
I guess but it sucks because you seem like a decently knowledgable guy. Im coming at this from the perspective of 15+ years of MMA history and precedent and I see it as a total sham. Politically motivated and engineered to deceive herd mentality casual fans.
You and others are pretending that Lesnar beat the UFC 34 era Couture fresh off his second Rizzo win and the Mir that just broke Sylvia's arm pre motorcycle accident.
In fact he beat Couture that was 2-2 in his last 4 at HW and had no case whatsoever to even have gotten a shot at Sylvia. And a Mir that had one recent big win against Nog. Thats it.
Werdum beat the guy who every single UFC champion agreed was the best on the planet when asked in interviews.
And he got shafted royally by the media and all the fans that lapped it up.
Think about that. Werdum acheieved the biggest win he could possible have gotten. There is nothing you could say to do in terms of an MMA accomplishment than what he did. Winning the 3rd version of the UFC HW title is TRIVIAL compared to finishing Fedor at his peak of dominance.
And yet it wasnt enough somehow. Because Fabs had "only" won 3 in a row and had lost for the only time in his career by tko too recently. He should have fought a couple more times and then had the Fedor fight.
Would they have DARED to steal the #1 rank from Fedor if he hadnt lost? Or would they have just waited and STILL denied Werdum and given it to Cain?
This is like robber-baron/wild west shit.
HELWIG - But youre conveniently failing to mention that fighter A in your example has literally 3 times the amount of wins, has fought consistently against as good if not BETTER comp and his "top ten" win is actually a stoppage against the #1 of not only the moment but of all time.actually i was talking about cain ,but whatever...
Contrasted against:
Fighter B who not only has sat out the past YEAR when he "earned" #1 ranking but also dropped his first fight outside your conveniently timed two year window. And his two top tens were over fighters who had not only already been FINISHED MULTIPLE TIMES but the champ had been finished 2 out of his last 4 at that very weight class.
Somehow thats all water under the bridge and Werdum's sole loss by tko to JDS is a damning reminder of his mediocrity.
NOBODY that knows MMA would even ENTERTAIN the idea that Randy(5th tko loss ALONE of his career) and Mir(4tko loss of his career) are better wins than Bigfoot Silva and Fedor(sole loss of his entire 10+ year career including 7 years as the top undefeated champion)
Few would even try to argue that Couture + Mir are greater wins than Fedor alone.
Yet somehow, magically for 4-1 Lesnar, out for a year, they were and he became the new #1 over Werdum. This despite Werdum actually beating the #1. And Lesnar still being 1-1 with Mir.
Really examine this and think for yourselves.
"we're gonna have to agree to disagree. "
I guess but it sucks because you seem like a decently knowledgable guy. Im coming at this from the perspective of 15+ years of MMA history and precedent and I see it as a total sham. Politically motivated and engineered to deceive herd mentality casual fans.
You and others are pretending that Lesnar beat the UFC 34 era Couture fresh off his second Rizzo win and the Mir that just broke Sylvia's arm pre motorcycle accident.
In fact he beat Couture that was 2-2 in his last 4 at HW and had no case whatsoever to even have gotten a shot at Sylvia. And a Mir that had one recent big win against Nog. Thats it.
Werdum beat the guy who every single UFC champion agreed was the best on the planet when asked in interviews.
And he got shafted royally by the media and all the fans that lapped it up.
Think about that. Werdum acheieved the biggest win he could possible have gotten. There is nothing you could say to do in terms of an MMA accomplishment than what he did. Winning the 3rd version of the UFC HW title is TRIVIAL compared to finishing Fedor at his peak of dominance.
And yet it wasnt enough somehow. Because Fabs had "only" won 3 in a row and had lost for the only time in his career by tko too recently. He should have fought a couple more times and then had the Fedor fight.
Would they have DARED to steal the #1 rank from Fedor if he hadnt lost? Or would they have just waited and STILL denied Werdum and given it to Cain?
This is like robber-baron/wild west shit.
fiercedragon -People keep saying this, but it's not accurate. Overeem does have a Top 10 win. Before you shoot the screen screaming that it doesn't make him the #1 heavyweight..........I don't disagree with you. I'm only pointing out that he does indeed have a win (an impressive one at that, in dominating fashion) over a Top 10 Heavyweight.SeditiousViciousness - So Fedor and Overeem can't be #1 because they haven't fought guys in the UFC. But Cain is #1 even though he has never fought anyone outside the UFC?
fedor can't be no1 BECAUSE HE JUST LOST to a fighter that may not have been ranked in the top 10.
overeem can't be no1 because he doesn't have a top 10 win.
cain is undefeated. cain has 4 top 20 wins. 2 top 10 wins, in the last 2 years. tell me whose record is better the last 2 years?
Carry on.........
The loss to Fedor dropped Rogers anywhere from 6-9 to anywhere from 9-12 depending on what rankings you use.
The point is all of Overeem's hype is based off his body, beating Hari in K1 and crushing low level MMA comp. Because it was all there well before he beat Rogers and won the K-1 GP.
He mighty be a top HW but he has done nothing to show that yet.
He was above 10th on Sherdog, MMA Weekly, Fightmatrix etc.
Again, I'm not saying he deserves to be considered in the elite of the Heavyweight ranks; but it is indisputable fact that the has beaten a Top 10 fighter.